Just recently, I and a few other Montserratians found ourselves taken up in a discussion on Facebook with an individual who lives in Montserrat who describes himself as someone who has relocated to Montserrat within the last 10 years. Having consulted the other persons who par-took in this exchange, we thought it prudent to share with a wider audience what was discussed. It is beyond shocking the thoughts being expressed by the individual in question. It is not that those of us as Montserratians have an issue with Caricom nationals in our island but what is frightening are the thoughts that some non Montserratians seem to be harbouring regarding the future of our island and their plans to outnumber and replace us Montserratians. I am posting the contents of the discussion to serve as an eye opener for us all as to why more than ever we need to make a concerted effort to ensure that the future of our island is not given to misguided individuals to direct. The conversation goes as follows:
Forbes Adams:
It is funny that Montserratians living abroad want to be able to control our destiny. But that will never ever happen, they should not be allowed to vote then go back in their green pastures to feed.
Jeevan Robinson:
Montserratians living abroad are very much concerned with the re-development of Montserrat as much as those living there. I struggle to understand the divisiveness that seeps through our society with the "us" & "them" mentality. The right to vote that was taken away from Montserratians who relocated only to seek a better condition for themselves, their families, their children etc. was a travesty against what great men like W H Bramble & Bob Griffith fought for in the advocation of universal suffrage as a right for all Montserrat nationals. Why do Montserratians at home feel like the country is theirs only and those abroad should butt out? It seems we sometimes suffer from short term memory as to why people had to leave in droves at the height of the crisis. The voting issue is not a simple matter of exclusion for nationals abroad. Why is it we are the only commonwealth country that excludes its citizens the right to vote by absentee ballot? A debate on this matter is necessary.
Avonelle Howe:
Well said and to the point Jeevan. I do share your views! Thank You Very Much!
You are out of order and I am not sure if you are from Montserrat. Montserratians abroad deserve an apology from you and from all accounts we all are now awaiting your apology.
Myrle Roach:
My address may no longer be in Montserrat but my place of birth and the 30+ years I spent living there gives me the right to claim a say in the future of the island. How dare anyone question this right? Montserrat's future is my destiny. Strange that "residents" who have come to the island to "feed" and then to move on to greener pastures are allowed this right and Mr. Adams has questioned that.
Forbes Adams:
I'm right in order Ms. Howe, are you and Jeevan aware that the population of Montserratians living out of Montserrat is close to a hundred thousand, and do you think it will be fair for those individuals to determine who manages our lively hood. What do you all want to do, come vote and then leave us in what ever mess of your liking, hell NO. Let us paddle our own canoe. I am living here long enough to have a say, because I am a registered voter.
Jeevan Robinson:
My first question to you Mr. Adams is this: where do you draw your statistics from that the Montserrat population abroad tops over 100,000? Please state your source of reference if you wish to engage in a discussion of this nature. The 'mess' you refer to was very much created without the Montserrat nationals who live abroad being there to create. From your statement I can see that it seems you are a non national. So whilst your opinion on the matter is noted, I think by right of birth, by right of continued interest in what goes on in our island, those of us abroad who hold firm that our voting right should not have been taken away are very much qualified to make such statements. Montserrat belongs to us all and because some of us may live abroad we will not be curtailed in expressing our views on the redevelopment of our island and that includes the voting issue. It was wrong to take it away in the manner it was done. Because we live abroad we should not have a say? I disagree. Plus you fail to realise the context of Montserrat's situation, people who left did not leave just because they wanted to. The volcanic situation and its consequences forced loads into leaving back in '96/97. All will not come back but surely we are still very much keen on what goes on in our island. We are still very much believing that our island can be great again. We are still very much appalled at the stalled state of affairs back at home. We are all still seeking ways in which we can make an impact and our voice be heard. This is our island and we love her and want to see her rise again. The voting issue is not just a simple matter that those of us abroad should be excluded. We were not properly informed or made to be a part of that decision and I feel it was hasty and not given proper due diligence. Surely, a strategy should have been developed to include Montserratians abroad in the re-development instead of cutting them off. We have to be mindful, Mr. Adams, of short-terminism.
Regena Francis:
As with Avonelle I think that Jeevan is on point with his earlier comments. Montserratians living abroad are not just concerned about what goes on in our island but are rather passionate about it. This them versus us mentality achieves nothing aside from trying to alienate the Diaspora. You fail to acknowledge Mr. Adams, the reason many of us left in the first place. You also fail to acknowledge that what has transpired on the island in the last few years and whatever mess the island is in now is nothing to do with us. What we should be doing those of us who live abroad and those who live on Montserrat is working together for the common good of the island. We need to come together to devise strategies for using the skills and talents gained abroad for the redevelopment of our island. Of course we will not all return to live in Montserrat we will hold her forever dear to our hearts.
Regena Francis:
We are also of the firm view that the rights our forefathers fought for should never have been taken away from us. We all deserve a say in the future and redevelopment in the island that we love and that includes re-instating our right to vote.
Forbes Adams:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that u all shouldn't have a say, of course u should, but to VOTE, hell NO. Maybe 100,000 might b stretching it a bit, but I can guarantee u it's over 40,000 after I checked with the statistic department this morning. I am sure Montserrat is the only country that has so much more of its natives living outside, hence the reason why my adopted island can't allow you to vote. Sorry my friends, if you want to have the same privilege as I do, please come and join me, and help to populate the island just like a lot of my country men are doing and keeping the island alive for you. Since I have been here I have heard that the British government, was about to close the island down because the population was getting too small. Thanks to us who can now vote.
Jeevan Robinson:
How long have you been living in Montserrat Mr. Adams & where are you from? Please enlighten us. Thanks for checking with the stats dept as you say you have. I think we may need independent verification of that number though. There are flaws with some of your statements because I can safely say that many Jamaicans for instance live outside there country in the USA, Canada, UK etc. They may not have had a natural disaster but they too have there mitigating factors. What bugs me Mr. Adams is not that you are living in Montserrat as the island is open to all. But more so your assumption of more rights and privileges to our island than those of us who are Montserratians. I do not think you are in line to say we cannot vote who live abroad. Hell No! Are you familiar with our history? And not just recent history. Are you familiar with such great names as W H Bramble, Bob Griffith & what they have fought for on our behalf to see it taken away by a shambolic committee of self interest?
Nathalie Weekes:
Well if I may put my two cents in here I will agree with my fellow Montserratians and I would think it is morally wrong that the right to vote is taken away from the Montserratian people because we have left the island and may I point out it was not a decision that was taken lightly seeing that the majority was forced to move because of the volcanic crisis. Please don’t get me wrong I am not against foreigners from coming to the island but put yourself in the shoes of Montserratians and ask yourself if it is fair for you to state such and also ask yourself if not for the volcanic crisis would you have left your country to come to Montserrat? So many ex patriots have left their country and still have the right to vote and also have the right vote in Strat’s election so why can’t Stratians abroad have the same rights? Also bare in mind that whatever happens to Montserrat is felt heartily by Montserratians at home and abroad also bare in mind that if ALL Montserratians had to come back home where would that place the foreigners? I guess one would think it unfair for us to come back to reclaim our Island but is our island and yes That Day Will Come.
Forbes Adams:
Hello Nathalie, by the time you decide to come back here we will be in charge of the island. The calling of early elections took us off guard, but I can assure you my friend by the next elections we will be more than ready to form our "non born Montserratian party" and with the dynamics of the population here, there is no doubt that we'll win more hands down. Now you see that the authorities made the right decision in preventing non-residents from voting. I am living here for now 10 years, and this is what I think would be the best for my adopted island, you will be more than welcome to join us.
Jeevan Robinson:
Thank you Nathalie & Gena! Mr. Adams with that last comment you made I think that signals an end to this conversation. I thought you were interested in a serious debate but it seems you have descended to emotional baiting because either you are grossly deluded to think that foreigners will ever be elected to high office to run our country or perhaps you just made that comment to annoy the hell out of patriotic Montserratians. You have only been in Montserrat 10 years, you think you have earned some right of passage to claim her as your own? Those of us who are commenting were born there, know our island before she was destroyed by that lady on the hill and still love our island and trust me if this is your attitude and it is shared by your fellow countrymen, then do believe this to be so that we will fast come back to reclaim our island.
Forbes Adams:
Jeevan, you sound like a practical person I will like to meet you when ever you come home for the usual two weeks that Montserratians usually do. But on a very serious note, are you not aware that we will most likely out number the born Montserratians as voters in the next 5 years, at the last parent teachers meeting that I attended at MSS we had 64% of the students attending the school who were not born of Montserrat parents. I think you are smart enough to do the math. And more is coming!!! We are in the process of forming a real political party, not one that is just put together for election purposes, so that it will continue for years & years to come, get the picture my friend. I heard of Mr. W H Bramble & Mr. Bob Griffith since I have been here, because I am serious about politics so I must learn the history of my new home, I am sure that you have done likewise & learn the history of your new home also. I got a British passport since I have been here, and I am here to stay.
Jeevan Robinson:
All I will say to you Mr. Adams is that you harbour very elusive dreams. Don't be fooled. Foreign entities will not gain control of our island. The youths of Montserrat will not permit such a gross travesty to happen. You come to our island, you have gained occupation, passport to European Union, a better quality of life and now you plan to take her moreover? How? You are wrong mate! You have no idea how many Montserratians you have angered with your talk. Please go read my blog kindly at http://www.mni-alive.com/.
Forbes Adams
Well my friend Jeevan, all I can say is that time will tell and it is surely on my side. I still can't understand y you would call it a "travesty" seeing we are the reason y there is a functioning Montserrat, as I said earlier, if it's wasn't for us there would not be an island for you to come to, so at least you owe us that gratitude. As I said earlier I am living here for 10 yrs and I have bought a piece of "the rock" even though I can easily go to Europe to live in "greener pastures"? I have read your blog, and I think that we might be able to work out something. It would be a good strategy to have one or two born Montserratian on the team, I need not spell out the reason y. I am not planning to take over OUR island I just want to have the opportunity to run it properly.
Myrle Roach
I have just realised the direction that this "discussion" has taken and am appalled at what I am reading. Mr. Adams is not only delusional but arrogantly so. You have made your feelings concerning native Montserratians who have chosen to immigrate since the volcanic crisis clear. What you should be expressing is eternal gratitude to us who realised that some people needed to leave in order for the island to survive. If we had all stayed the situation would have indeed been dire and most of all there would have been no room for you. I thank you for making your views and intentions known because they will serve as a bigger catalyst for those of us making decisions as to our time frame for returning home. Oh yes Mr. Adams ... there are many of us who have every intention of returning to our native land and not you or any other foreigner can stop this from happening. Your arrogance defies belief ... "a good strategy to have one or two born Montserratians on the team"..."
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Mr. Forbes deserves deportation, and the immigration needs to have a thorough look at this blog. He needs not intellectual addressing, but harsh words and a good Ass beating for the crap he is here writing. His time should be spent looking after his hungry kids back home so help me Father if he does/doesn't have. -- Not only is he utterly foolish, he seems to be into comedy. After reading his comments I was at first horrified, but then I realised he must either be freaking JOKING or needs psychiatric consultation. So I am here grinning with my friends and as a casual MSN conversation would say LMFAO!!!... He is crazy, mad,insane............... a lunatic!
ReplyDeleteI am in high doubt that other foreignors even share his silly views about 'taking over' OUR island. After immigration officers read this they will think three times before they even accept your likeness onto the island.
Mr. Forbes you are ungrateful and Jeevan needs to block your comments from further appearing on this blo
g and please note that its an MNI Alive site, and not MNI 'Wannatakeover'
For the others who think they should be allowed to vote, in all fairness I think that its a delicate situation. I guess that the decision was weighed based upon the facts that SOME may not know whats going on in the island and may vote based on family, friendship, maybe they have done something for my friend, or my mother, as opposed to who is giving an unbiased opinion (vote) based on capability ei-- leadership skills, honesty,-- basically a general interest in the future of the island. I think this is just going to be a case where the innocent suffers for the guilty, but such is life and we need not dwell on it.
Whatever the outcome, Montserrations will know that it is us.. and those accomodating the likeness of that dreaded forbes has put us in that position.
^&*( FORBES!!!!! YOUR NAME SHOULD BE ON EVERY WANTED POSTER!
Reading this blog, get me very angry. All montserratian who left because of the crisis had various reasons for leaving and going aboard, and it was a very painful decision. We maybe living overseas for over ten years now,but we still misses our country. But when a johnny come lately will to make such statement on the worldwide web, we montserratian who was born on the rock need to take this VERY seriously and will not tolerate it. So i would like to say mr.Adams the battle has began and good lucky, hope you are able to leave before we get there.
ReplyDeleteThis Forbes fellow angers me to no end. I was not born on Montserrat but my whole life was spent on that beautiful island. I was educated there from nursery through to secondary school and I worked there within one of its institutions seven years before emigrating to the UK to further my studies. I lived through Fort Ghaut being flooded, hurricane Hugo and had to be schooled at various locations because of the volcanic crisis and someone who has not even had half of this history and memory of Montserrat want to say that I can't vote? I am a national though not by birth but my loyalties lie with Montserrat more than my own birth place and this upstart who has had not even fully experienced Montserrat wants to set himself higher than Montserratians and others like myself? Perish the thought!! Bet he hasn't walked any of the streets of Plymouth, hasn't ever been East or South or climbed Chances Peak or been to Galways and all the wonderful places that only those of us who know Montserrat have been to. Forget about knowing Montserrat's history Forbes Adams...have you LIVED it to truly know what's good for Montserrat and her people???
ReplyDeleteI honestly believe Mr Forbes is highly ungrateful.. After my fellow Montserratians gave him and the rest of the guyanese population revenues to feed themselves and their starving family back in Guyana who have it hard he is trying to stab us as Montserratians in our back..AS anyone can see he has no good intentions for us. He stated and i quote," they (MONTSERRATIANS) should not be allowed to vote then go back in their green pastures to feed".
ReplyDeleteI find that highly insulting that you said my Montserratians should go back in the pastures to feed and i highly agree that you should be deported and not only deported but hang for making such a comment.
This is an eye opener for we as Montserratians to come together and bring unity to chaos, we always bring down each other and never want to work together. We need to change our mind set and if you all dont believe that Guyanese cannot runt his country in the next five years well i am sorry but they CAN!!!! We need to take a stand now and fight for our country...
I NEVER HAVE A PROBLEM WITH GUYANESE BUT WITH YOUR STATEMENT THERE IS SOME HATRED DEVELOPING IN ME JUST BECAUSE OF YOU!!!!
MONTSERRATIANS LETS TAKE A STAND AND FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS AND OUR COUNTRY
I THANK YOU!!!! PEACE, UNITY AND LOVE FOR OUR FELLOW MONTSERRATIANS
Just 5 words i have to say... BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF THEM.....As the bible say if ur left hand hurt you cut um off, If we have a garden & unwanted weeds tend to grow in between wha we do ?.. Please do not wait for them five (5) year plan to come into play,, run them from now trust me, If who inna Strat want help i will come stamp out them guyana pple.....
ReplyDeletemr jam- band good blog
Now.. now.. why on earth would this guy Forbes want to step on everyone's corns!! Surely he does not speak like a proud Montserratian and make me wonder if he is a Montserratian at all. I am like others on here are proud Montserratians and I live here, those who are broad for one reason or another, I embrace you all always and I will say welcome home when I see you. But today we seem to live in a new Montserrat where we are flooded by "outsiders" who seem to be tarnishing our beloved land and I for one think that Montserratians living outside of Montserrat should be given the right to vote as opposed to the "foreigners" who live here for just 3 years. It kinda scares me because I am sure next General Elections we will soon here that they will be running for elections too.
ReplyDeleteThis new Montserrat we live in right becomes wrong and wrong be comes right and I think it should be stamped out. And not only stamped out but stamped out with those those who tarnish our beloved land be sent out never to return also.
All residents of Montserrat have a stake in good government. While many cannot vote, they still pay taxes and contribute to the economy. We all deserve a functional, corruption-free government - and we all need to work together to allow Montserrat to live up to her full potential. Bickering over who is a "real" Montserratian is one of the reasons for the mess we are in. If you can't vote, you can still support the candidate of your choice. Maybe some of the reasons people don't come home are that they are not welcome, there are no jobs, inadequate housing, high cost of living and low wages. Let's work together to fix those issues and the rest will take care of itself.
ReplyDelete"Mr Forbes came in the last showers and the acid rain wet him down"
ReplyDeleteNot only has his comments and suggestions angered me but have made me want to be sick. This man has no knowledge of Montserrat the way it used to be or of the beautiful resilient people who have been forced to leave because of circumstances beyond their control.
How could any human being calling MY Montserrat their adopted home make comments that would anger and distress ALL Montserratians?
In answer to my own question, this Mr Forbes has problems in one form or another. Someone needs to run a background check on this guy. Why did he move to Montserrat? Did he run away from trouble or did he come looking for some? There maybe some underlying factors that need to be investigated.
We know why we left our beautiful island and it was for legit reasons.
His intentions for Montserrat if left unchecked could result in something quite undesireale.
BEWARE!! HE MAY BE MAD!!
I am very happy that Mr Adams have found a place that he can call home and where he feels secure and safe, both physically and economically. It is also very heartening to know that Mr Adams have liked the place so much and have stayed for more than 10 years, adopting it and making it home. In acknowledgement of this and according to the laws of Montserrat, he has been given the right to vote, which by the way, will never be challenged by open-minded Montserratians, who believe in free movement of people and fairness for all. However, I am very disturbed by the way you are thinking. I do believe and, maybe its a bit stupid sometimes, boast on the fact that Montserrat is a very accomodating island or as Arrow once said, 'Strangers Paradise'. Despite this, we as citizens, and by this I mean born and bred Montserratians or Montserratians through parentage, will never sit back and let others, people like you, come and control our affairs. I am not and will never object to foreigners residing in Montserrat as we welcome their expertise, their friendship and try to grasp an understanding of the cultural differences. This is what diversity is all about. However, we as Montserratians will vehemently stand up for what is right for Montserratians and for the future of Montserrat in the face of any foreigner who wants to take away that right of control which our fore-fathers fought so hard for. Mr Adams should be very happy that he was granted the status to vote in a country outside his own. In some countries, the right to vote is not bestowed on some nationals and those who are granted that right are faced with their views being suppressed by dictatorial governments. Montserrat afford Mr Adams that right and an open forum to express his views and for this he should appreciate. It begs asking if that right was granted to him in his own country. Mr Adams and others who are of the same thinking, should reconsider their position or get out. This is not their country. My blood boils here. Imagine a foreigner telling me or having a say in a debate as to whether or not I should vote in my own country. This is absurd, entirely pathetic. This situation has been going on too long though. I have in the past experience foreign immigration officers asking me how long I intend to stay in my own country when I come on holidays. This they do even when they have read the passport and see that it states 'Place of birth - Montserrat. Finally, I think that we Montserratians who are living overseas should take this as a very serious matter and come back home and work with our brothers and sisters at home in a united front and charter a proper course for our island. As Natalie said earlier, that day will certainly come and sooner than the foreigners expect it to be. Here are just a few questions for Mr Adams though:
ReplyDelete1. If you had'nt come to Montserrat, would you have had the option of living in any European Union country of your choosing
2. Would you have been able to live in the ease and comfort that you are presently living and having a house and proper education for your children.
My friend, I was living and working in the British Virgin Islands for years and still did not gain the right to vote even though it was a British Overseas Territory as well. I was not able to purchase property until several years after. My friend, consider yourself as lucky to have set foot on our blessed island. Don't tarnish it with your nonsense and please erase that fantasy that you are harboring in your little pathetic head as it would never be achieved.
I too was very upset by Mr. Adams' tasteless and crude remarks. I love Montserrat, and it is my desire to return and make my contributions there. The way Mr. Adams is speaking is as if the Montserrat I will be returning to would be one where I, a born and bred bonafied Stratian for life, would be treated and be considered a foreigner. God forbid. Not a cold day in hell.
ReplyDeleteDaddy Algie is right. Many other countries aren't this open and welcoming to foreigners. I guess now more than ever it is clear why. They have to protect the interest of their people! Perhaps we should consider enforcing stricter laws that would protect our land and our control of Montserrat as its rightful owners. I am not advocating that we oppress foreigners. Never! As we too were once considered foreigners in a strange land. However, when I think of the fact that it is not totally impossible for what Mr. Adams has said to come to pass, it makes me very, very protective of the place I call home.
I do not live on the island, so I cannot say this will all surety, but there were several occasions where Montserratians have told me that they were denied jobs that they were qualified for and those jobs were given to foreigners. I have lived in St. Croix for over a decade, and even if Crucians are less qualified they are granted first preference. They don't "play that" as they would say. We Montserratians should reconsider trying to hold each other down, but rather work together to protect our own best interest.
Montserrat will never be the same as it was, but who says we can't make it better than before? I know "I can" has been floating around the air a lot, but permit me to says "Yes, we can". Yes we can!
Like Jeevan et-al I'm just as appalled by Mr. Forbes' presumptuous statements. It's amazing that many non-nationals are quick to claim strong rights to our little island when they themselves haven't even considered how they would feel if the tables were turned. Have they even considered their own reasons for leaving their homelands? His statement "...go back in their green pastures to feed..." should be redirected towards himself as well. The fact that they've migrated to Montserrat suggests that these same non-nationals are facing unfavourable circumstances in their own countries...yet, they consider the Montserratians abroad to have abandoned their nation. It's quite amazing, and even more amusing to see such assertions being made.
ReplyDeleteThere are many non-nationals who I believe have been here long enough to stake a claim in determining the island's future...however, a mere 10 years - hmm...quite arrogant.
I see a real battle going on here.
ReplyDeleteThe fact remains that:
1. Untill the constitutional order (we have no constitution) is repealed and a proper constitution is adopted, we will be going around in circles.
2. Untill politicians think of country and not self, then they would be in a position to entertain an overseas ballot. However this is not a popular practice in the Caribbean. A neighbouring Island used to effectivly stay in power by the virtue of being able to charter plane loads of persons to vote, when the law was changed, they promtly lost power.While I do agree that the overseas involvement should factor into an election, it must be thought out carefully, as the local population who have first hand knowledge as to pain and suffering we have will not take to kindly if the overseas population swing a decision that could be detrimental.
Personnaly I am not in favour of an overseas ballot, unless one is significantly contributing to the economy i.e. property taxes, remittances etc. I also strongly feel that if you wish to be a part of the nations development, that you would have to sacrifice your Dual citizenship and be loyal to Montserrat only. The best thing however is to come back home and contribute. This is also a great sacrifice as you very well know you will not get 1/2 the salary that your currently getting or the perks.
Having said that, you will realize that the average "local Montserratian" would have a problem opening up its ballot. As one person put it "if you want to fan the flames, you have to be near de pot"
Dual citizenship doesn't make you disloyal. It puts you in a better position to contribute. Forgive me, but I really don't see what dual citizenship has to do with anything. And who says absentee ballots are unpopular in the Caribbean? Kittitians practice it, as do Antiguans and Virgin Islanders, and even if they didn't so what? We are the exception to many rules as the other islands don't have an active volcano for over 10 years, and an island where foreigners are gearing up to out number nationals. Our situation is unique and requires a unique approach.
ReplyDeleteI have procrastinated about whether I really wanted to contribute to this debate. As frightening as it may seem, Mr Adams do have a point that in 5 years a foreign national may be able to run Montserrat. Now that is stating the obvious! Its not something that isnt forseeable - simply as there are more foreigners in Montserrat.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with Montserrat is Montserrations. They (and I exclude myself here) are quick to promote foreigners above themselves. It has been happening for years way before the volcano and I applaud Mr. Adams for been so honest because it is a wake up call for Montserrations to change their mentality about themselves.
This small minded division between those currently living there and those abroad is petty! This will never get us any where. Montserrations abroad should have a right to vote. Americans in the last election living in the UK were able to vote. For a tiny island if all Montserrations near and far do not unite it would create more harm than good.
Hi .... Jeevan and others. I like the debate. I understand how "montserratians" living overseas will fel about the comments made by this individual. I also understand how this individual is feeling. What is the reality though? Think carefully ....
ReplyDeleteI remained on Montserrat throughout this whole crisis and I see it happening. Is This individual really wrong? Before we get angry and developing ill feelings look at the facts. What is the ratio of non-nationals to nationals? Even among the nationals.... what is the ratio of "born and bread" to "adopted"? There is an underlying problem that should have been addressed years ago but it is not too late. Montserrat has to exist .... if "montserratians" leave whether forced to or by choice and done return the void must be filled. Ownership of Montserrat is more than been born there ...... it is land ownership, investment (time and money) ..... When non-nationals come in and invest their time and sweat and resources ... buy property .... can they really be denied the right to claim montserrat?
I am not advocating that anyone should show disrespect to others ... if that was the individual's intent then he should be sanctioned as such but look deep my fellow men ..... is there any merit to his comments? Look at his comment on the make up of the school population. Montserratians overseas need to participate alot more ..... (invest in montserrat, buy homes, visit regularly, be more vocal etc) to maintain ownership.
The only time we hear from some people is on forums like these when there is some contentious issue. Facebook and Msn has its place but how many Montserratians (with all the bachelors and masters) even bother to write an article? Wake up and see the reality.
I would like to put my 2cents in here. Montserrat for me is one of the most people places on earth that anyone will find.
ReplyDeleteGrowing up I didn't have to worry about crime, diseases and all the issues our neighbouring islands suffered from.
Montserratians are very intelligent minded but we have been too welcoming to say the least and accepting of others before our own (this is not being petty) this is a problem. Unity is strength...we need to make use of our own resources, our people, this is a must.
I have learnt that life is about trial and error, people should be given a chance without the heavy scrunity that goes on in Montserrat and the bad talking behind peoples' back and smile in your face attitude.
The fact that we are Montserratians with a voice we should be given the right to vote,we are entitled to this it is our birth right whether or not we are on the rock.
This is what democracy is about, the supreme power is vested in the people to decide the state of our affairs. Consensus should be our main focus where everyone's voice is heard and an opinion is reached by us all as a nation, nationals and non nationals alike.
Someone commended Mr Forbes for his honesty and I agree with this individual, it is good to know where people's hearts and minds are so we can take action which is specific and significant.
As a Montserratian I will do anything to secure my island and the rights of my people and if that means returning to claim my land you better believe I will(this is my strongest feeling).
Oops, I should edit my work, peaceful place is my point!
ReplyDeleteThe class divide in M/rat is a contributing factor as to why many have been denied the right to vote. The elites in M/rat have appeared to have forgotten that many people have evacuated so that they could have a better standard of living for themselves and their children. The majority of the working class have been denied the right to vote because they have had to leave their beloved island to provide a future for their children. Not having the right to vote is not democratic! If we think that Mr. Forbes ambition is foreseeable do you not think that the elites like Sir Howard Fergus have not thought of this? Giving M/rations abroad democratic right to vote is the way forward and a way to redress the balance. Montserrat is for all Montserrations, home and abroad. By giving M/ration that right to vote is to further engage M/rations abroad both in the political and economical redevelopment.
ReplyDeleteI am all for having the ‘best talent’ for the job. Mr. Adams seems to think that he can do a better job than that of the existing government. Well Jeevan, I think you should engage further in a dialogue with Mr. Adams to see his future plans for M/rat. Maybe you can set up a committee and get him on board. We need talent from nationals home and abroad as well as immigrants. Let us not disconnect relations with him, but win him over.
One last thing lets not as Montserrations stoop to the level of the BNP and talking about getting rid of immigrants in Montserrat. Thanks to them there is still a place we could go home to. Many of us who have a background in International Development would agree with Mr Adams that the British Gov and UN could have relocated all the people off the island if they were less than 3000.
I think the comments of this FORBES person need to taken into very serious consideration, as with any other non-national who has come to our country and gain status. An opportunist as I would call him, with no real prospects for our country. And can I ask this FORBES person, HOW MUCH OF HIS PAY CHECK DOES HE SENDS BACK TO HIS COUNTRY AND HOW MUCH DOES BANK IN HIS ADOPTED HOME AS HE WOULD LIKE TO CALL it. This tiny question would place highly on how much value he really has in Montserrat. On the other hand I think the Government now needs to look at the opportunists that they are letting into our little island. Not that I am against them coming but the intentions of each of them needs to be clearly stated. I think tho we need to have a system whereby these persons now hold an indefinite status and any children born to them during this time will also be of their native country. These persons will not be able to hold a passport whether Montserrat or British until they have been properly checked and their contributions to the island has been significant. They must also be saving their money in the country whereby any benefits will go into the resources of the country. (For we no most of them go to the Western Union first and foremost when they get paid). It would be a sad day if this FORBES and the likes of him are left to take control of our beautiful island. This should serve as a warning to the incoming Government. If it comes to that we would need to put a cap on the likes of people that are going to be let to live amongst us.
ReplyDeleteThis was indeed an eye opener.
ReplyDeleteI am very optimistic that exposing Mr Adams & his associates will now help to galvanize us with a positive thrust as to the importance of having Montserratians being the dominant national identity in Montserrat.
ReplyDeleteSome very good points are being raised here in this debate and I think that we should seek to take this issue beyond a talking point & bring it into further into prominence, so that even those Montserrat nationals who may not be web savvy can know exactly the dilemma our island faces.
The matter of foreign nationals in Montserrat is not one where we will seek to implement draconian policies to exclude them; there contribution to our survival has to be noted and given due regard. However, we should seek to introduce policies, adjust or introduce legislation, a concerted promotional & development drive to encourage Montserratians back home. Policies that will serve to limit a full takeover of our island like what Mr Adams has mentioned. We want the participation of foreigners but we do not want our island to be run by them. Montserratians will be second class citizens in our own land, we cannot allow this.
I have had conversations with many individuals both at home and in the diaspora since this issue has come to light and what is frightening and also absurd is that it is some of our very own politicians who are practitioners in matters of law, who seem to have fostered this free for all access to our island. Effectively selling out our island.
This just makes it even more important that we must exert all efforts to have the right people at the helm to run our country. CH said it correctly, and it is view that I have been commenting on for ages, that Montserrat's situation is unique and therefore certain practices that are commonplace elsewhere cannot be carte blanche accepted in Montserrat.
On the voting issue, this is something that MNI Alive will be seeking to encourage further debate on going forward. Whilst I do believe that is not simply a matter of allowing ALL Montserratians abroad to vote with no conditions, I think that the change in legislation that was put forth by Sir Howard needs to be challenged and a constructive debate needs to be opened up to look at re-dressing this travesty.
It is critical that we realise that the resistance to the voting issue is not just something held by Mr Adams but some residents at home oppose our democratic right to be a part of our electoral process by citing the argument of outside voters not living there. I respect and can see the emotional side to that discourse, but I feel that that reason alone is a limiting factor to a proper discussion. Because then if this view is water tight then by association any national that lives outside their country should then not be allowed to vote as they do not live 'at home'. That I think is a fair association based on that line of reasoning. Many democracies both developed and developing afford their citizens this right and all Montserratians abroad are excluded because they do not live there? The discussion needs to go beyond that.
I think that discussing and re-dressing this issue will be a fundamental step in addressing the exclusion of the diaspora in the redevelopment of Montserrat and also will help to deal with this dangerous and retrogressive "us at home" & "them abroad" mentality.
The country owes us nothing. We owe her at least to give back something in what way we can.
Well now that we have had a full fledged discussion, some action needs to be taken. It appears that it would be a very wise decision to lobby for stricter laws with regards to who we grant nationality status to and voting rights. While it is essential in more ways that one for the free movement of persons within the region, certain precautions are crucial to the safeguarding of our national interests. We need to take this matter to a higher power.
ReplyDeleteI am a Montserratian living in Montserrat; and I think Mr Adams is right on target.
ReplyDeleteHow de hell any sensible person could suggest that it makes any kind of sense for someone not living in Montserrat to have a right to vote here?
Do we have the equivalent of CNN or FOX or BBC to keep people up to date on what is happening here and who is who in terms of candidates contesting an election? NO NO NO ZJB online is good, but you don't begin to get real information about what is really happening in Montserrat by listening to ZJB.
The UK Montserratians who are kicking up on here are mostly a bunch of frauds (who bex bex). They stay up in England and whine and moan about all that is wrong with Montserrat and then foolishly expect the people here to all of a sudden change things and make Montserrat the perfect place for them to return to. Truth is they would not give up whatever little they have in the UK and come home and work hard to make a living and indeed make a DIFFERENCE. Too many bullshitters making arguments about not being welcome and this and that and the other. How many of you have actually made an application for ANYTHING in Montserrat? Jeevan for example knows there is a job here that is tailor made for him, and I
bet you he has not registered an interest, much less applied; but he going to rah rah about patriotism. Give me a damn break! What else you
waiting for son? What job opening you waiting for; Governor? You can be a difference maker and and trendsetter and you don't even recognise it;
but alas you are not the only one. Quite frankly we in Montserrat are a bit tired of your rhetoric and shite talk on Roger Wade program etc.
You have the capacity to rebuild Montserrat, but it cannot be done via remote control or absentee ballot. Think about it for a second; the
people who you left here friggin up the country 14 years ago still asking for a vote again; what difference whould it make if you elect them
with lots of votes or we elect them with a few votes. And if the candidates are new, how on earth you going to properly evaluate them from a
distance. Please stop letting foolish emotion guide your thoughts. Do you honestly think you can have a proper grasp of the real issues that
matter to us on a day to day basis? You will know the overall issues but you cannot know how they rank in priority if you are not in the
kitchen feeling the heat. The non-nationals here know what it is like to use our substandard health system and pay ridiculous prices in the
supermarkets etc. you think when you come here for a couple weeks holiday you can get a true sense of the struggles of a Montserrat resident?
to be continued...
continuation....
ReplyDeleteStop kidding yourselves people; you don't know the half of it.
If you want a perfect example of fairly straightforward and reasonably well paying jobs that we have to hire non-nationals for because
Montserratians not stepping up to the plate; have a look at the Police Depatment and the Fire and Rescue department, the nursing profession.
Dozens of jobs a beggin and Montserratians in the UK and elsewhere snoozing. That is the one thing that annoy me actually; a set of non-
nationals manning the immigration posts at the airport. But it is not their fault, it is the fault of Montserratians at home and abroad who
refuse to step up to the plate and be counted. Some UK Montserratians catching their tail up in England and their foolish pride making them
stay up there and pretend and make up all sorts of excuses for not returning. Some have a contribution to make but they feel they too good for
the salaries on offer here. Some of them will only come home if they are fired from their jobs. That is the reality of the situation, but the
disengenous ones make up plausible sounding excuses and in the end do NOTHING to really help Montserrat move forward. Just glowing rhetoric
about Montserrat.
You ever notice that the most patriotic montserrat calypso's are sung by people who don't live at home? Just an observation, not sure what it
means yet.
Take note all of you who ranting and raving; it is not a potential Guyanese political party u should be worring about. While you are busy
fighting your caribbean brother the real hijack of montserrat has taken or is taking place right under your noses. Consider these names;
Chanderamani/Rams, Sahdwani/Ashok, Valecha/Angelos, Valecha/Victors, Karishma, Deepak, etc. These are who control what we eat in Montserrat and
make millions off of us, and many of them started from scratch and with Montserratian backing; now they diggin out we eye with mecenary prices.
Look at the DFID and FCO staff buying up property all over Montserrat and angling to carve up little bay for their friends; "watch de creep up".
Jeevan and all you supposedly bright people out there, wake up and recognise where the REAL problem is.
Thank God for Guyanese, Jamaicans, Trinidadians (and Santo Domingan women) and say a prayer for lazy Montserratians who just full of excuses.
Anonymous above, seems to me like you are the one speaking from emotions. I sense some venom in your reply. Why are many so angry about individuals who had to leave the island? We could not have all stayed there. You know that.
ReplyDeleteWe do not have anything against foreigners. Yes they have contributed greatly to Montserrat and that should be respected. What should not be tolerated are plots to take Montserrat as their own. There is nothing right or honorable about that.
You made lots of assumptions. You assumed that Jeevan will only make contributions through blogging. Have you spoken to him personally? Well, I have and I know for a fact that he plans to contribute in other ways. He has to start from some where, Anonymous Commentor. He has chosen to start through blogging. What ever is so wrong with that?
Jeevan, I admire you because you are not about YOU. You have made it clear that this blog is for everyone. It's not about your thoughts alone. It's about us coming together as Montserratians and reasoning together. Keep doing what you're doing.
P.S. I do enjoy listening to you on Live From London.
I read with interest the initial discussion and since reading the comments, I just had to add my thoughts on the discussion. I can see how Mr Forbes must have irritated many of my fellow Montserratians living abroad more especially those in the UK.
ReplyDeleteBut his view on the situation in M/rat is not as far fetched as some you seem to think, but rather the reality that exists.
Americans are allowed to vote by absentee ballot in their elections however do you all really expect that the same thing can apply to Montserrat, since there are more Montserratians outside of M/rat. Unless you are living in Montserrat you really cannot get a feel of what is happening on the ground. This is not just an opinion I have travelled to the UK several times over the past 12+ years and in speaking with a lot of Montserratians they have a passion for their homeland but they do not understand many of the issues in M/rat. Further those of you who are making emotional comments you all need to show meaningful contribution to the island. How many of you are sending home remittances, as a matter of fact they are sometimes going in the opposite direction. How many of you have returned over the 13yrs or are coming back home regularly and come home and spend some money. Before you all come down you go and shop and send down barrells with everything so you dont have to buy any thing but the bare necessities, maybe eggs for example. When you are here you all complain about everything is not like London or Birmingham or wherever, the sun is too hot, and walk around wearing jumpers and coats because the sun gone make you all get too dark before you go back to UK, and dont talk about if we can even understand what you all saying in the British accent. All this talk about love of your country is nothing more than sentiment, it is the same feeling as one would have for a loved one who has passed on. Listen to this 99.999% of you who have gone to the UK have absolutely no intention of coming back to M/rat. As a I read in a previous comment there is always some excuse. Jobs are available and without our Caricom nationals filling them what would happen,take for instance the Health service are there no qualified nurses or other professionals etc., who want to come back and contribute. Just take a listen to "Live from London" I think that program is obsolete when we in M/rat hear the questions the presenter asks you realize he totally out of touch with Montserrat physically and otherwise. What about the lost generation who left here aged 10 and under they dont know anything about M/rat. So it is up to you who left as adults to stop talking and let us see your actions. Can we start to tally how many of you we will see returning to M/rat within the next 1-3 years, and dont talk about getting housing and everything in place for you because Caricom nationals are coming all the time finding the available jobs and place to live.
I welcome the last two 'anonymous' comments. Mr Adams gave us an insight into what non nationals in Montserrat are thinking and I took the editorial decision to share it via this forum so that it will help to spark a debate & hopefully a movement.
ReplyDeleteI find it important that I once again stress that the voting issue is not simply a matter of changing laws already in place to allow every single Montserratian abroad to vote. No. It is a process that has to begin with discussion and hence I see the need to challenge the accepted notion that because Montserratians live abroad then they should not vote. You mentioned that we have no CNN/FOX etc. I have heard this too being given as another reason why the voting decision should not be reviewed.
Frankly I see this as being a bit short sighted with regards to the real change we need in our island. I say this because my whole thinking lies in the concept of a total overhaul of the marketing/communications strategy for Montserrat. This does not only tie in with the voting issue but it I see it as a key cornerstone, a central theme if you like in our re-development drive. You call it nonsensical. Ok. I respect your opinion but I beg to differ.
The communications strategy for Montserrat going forward has to take into focus that Montserrat is not the Montserrat of old. The realisation has to be accepted in the corridors of power that we are now a virtual nation. E-government has to developed into our communications programme. Our people en masse live in foreign shores. Whilst I do believe that here should be a movement to get as many back home as possible, I think that on the ground in Montserrat you need to have conditions improved. This change that I speak of is not for the benefit of those in the Diaspora just packing up and coming back home to enjoy it as you mentioned. No. This change is for all Montserratian who live there, people like you and Mr Adams so that we do not have to pay expensive prices for food and everyday requirements, so that travel to and from our island is not a financial burden on the average man.
So as I was saying, the communications strategy has to realise that ZJB online is inadequate. And I am not saying that we will re-create FOX & CNN but my friend, it is about having a vision, with this vision comes a plan and with that plan comes execution. My vision is one of a communications enterprise that realises that the majority of our people live abroad, one that encompasses the fact that the voting issue needs to be re-examined and to make any change in policy effective on this issue, then the provision of information by independent bodies becomes vital.
May I ask you; is there any media outlet in Montserrat that asks tough questions of our current crop of politicians? We need media that is independent of government. Media whose remit is not just to serve the information needs of locals but also those abroad. The re-development of our island has to viewed in a holistic fashion and while there are immediate concerns the long term viability of the island is what the ultimate aim should be. Change is a process. I recognise that and do not expect that legislations should be repealed immediately regarding the voting issue.
Montserratians at home are grossly opposed to even having a discussion on the issue. Why is this? My views on the voting issue stretch beyond emotion. It goes to the fundamental rights of us as citizens that were taken away without proper consultation and that I feel was wrong. There are ways in which Montserratians abroad can be a part of the electoral process if we are willing to open our minds and engage in debate as to how best this can be done. My first pillar of reform would be a communications/marketing overhaul of our current practices. It is not inconceivable ......... (Continued)
(continuation)......We cannot let arguments that are bounded in emotion decide the fate of our island. It is our right as citizens of Montserrat, living there or not that we are free to comment on what goes on in our island. You speak of coming home to feel the heat in the kitchen. Are you saying Montserratians abroad who love their country and want to see things changed have to be there to make a forthright observation or to ask for higher standards, better prices, more accountability etc? I am sure Montserratians abroad will disprove of this thought process. MY argument is simple, Montserrat’s situation should be discussed in context and it has to be realised that what we have faced, what we are facing is not the same as any developing country in the region has faced.
ReplyDeleteRams and all these other person you mentioned have been there for years true, but may I ask you what incentives are given to locals to set up establishments on a similar scale & size. How much support is given to locals who wish to set up businesses to compete on that level? One commentator mentioned that we always seek to give roles to foreigners instead of locals. How many instances have we heard of locals applying for jobs that they are qualified to do but yet are overlooked and the jobs with all its perks etc goes to some non national?
The Real problem is not with those in the Diaspora seeking change, the problem is with the divisive attitude that is killing our country, the problem is with the lack of vision from our leaders, the problem is with the cost of living in Montserrat, the problem is with the exclusion of the Diaspora from taking part in the debate about our redevelopment, the problem we are faced with can be described as attitudinal by some of us not seeing that we need to pull together to see our country out of this quagmire.
Sacrifice is needed I agree and it will have to come from us all. By the way my compass is very much pointing towards home hence why I have made the decision to pursue certain avenues of personal development before leaving these shores. But this blog is a start my friend. I hope you will at least entertain the idea that development does not only come from within but also from outside.
My two cents:
ReplyDeleteOver the past 3 years over 40 public service jobs have been offered. Many posted on line. 95% of the applicants are non Montserratian, and on top of that, these applicants are also from overseas. They get no incentive to settle in, yet they come.
50% of m/stratians awarded with scholarships, break their bond and dont return. After 6 or 8 years, they come out of the woodwork expecting to be employed, with perks and incentives 30-40% more than what an average person would get at a similar post but never left? Is that fair?
How many Montserratians overseas have bought land, and hired a contractor to put up a structure that could earn them money and at the same time keep the economy going. There is land...lots of it.So why not invest?
How many of you overseas have pressured the financial services to set up a branch of the Building society or bank of Montserrat in the US or UK.. It can happen, but from your end.
Why wait to fuss and moan 1 month before election that you can not vote, when you have an average of 3-6 years to take affirmative action.
Why not join us at home and throw this silly 9X out the window and go back to constituencies. There are countries smaller than us with this system (one man one vote) with 9x no one really represents you as a villager.
Also when your closer to home, you would realise that no matter who you put up there to represent you, there is the grand puppet master who calls the shots, and I know for a fact, they have held this beloved country at ransom many times, if ideas and decisions do not go the HMG way.
Think of who is retarding our economic growth by way of investment (HMG)
Who is preventing our full participation in Caricom.
Who turned down the governments decision to extend the time that non montserratians had to stay in montserrat before they become 1 montserratian and 2 move on to british citizenship? (HMG)
Who thinks that the St. Johns School is adequate for our health needs. (HMG & sad to say the good DR.)
Who still has us on stand by generators for 13 years..mmm well that one I think is a matter of greed... I will not elaborate.
Who stalled the development of Little bay?
and I can go on and on
Montserrat is a big chess game. unfortunately the wrong side seems to be winning as those who can do something dont. We can not fight it from the inside,because, the same persons who seem to be the "popular party" are the ones that effectively crushed the trade union system in Montserrat.(ask sheddy)They do not exactly think things through and sad to say may not have the support of the persons who assist us financially.
I noted that someone took a stab at the indian business men on island..but dem jus trust all awe rice and sugar when the locals dont. Thats why they still have a support base. But having said that,it is high time the monopoly comes to an end.
Lastly on the ferry or access. There are many more montserratians in better positions out of Montserrat. It stands to reason that if they all become share holders a ferry could be purchased in no time with very little individual investment. simple Math 2255 montserratians(working population)/1000000 is about 500 sterling each. A significant investment. on the other hand 40 000/1000000 = 25sterling. Think about it next time you can not get to Montserrat.
From what I am gathering it seems as if Montserrations living there wants us here in the UK to do more to contribute to the redevelopment of Montserrat. I think Jeevan's next blog should focus on what practical things can Montserrations abroad do to help in the redevelopment.
ReplyDeleteHowever, it has to be reciprocal. Montserrations abroad need to continue to be involved in the redevelopment of Montserrat not only by providing financial investment but also be involved the political process. I know one Montserration mentioned that 2/3 of the Montserrations are living abroad so they should not be given the right to vote. Might I remind you that the reason is not one of choice so the situation is very unique. Furthermore engaging Montserrations abroad can only be a benifit for Montserrat and Montserrations living there. Many Montserrations now have finished studing and are concentrating on securing valuable and transferable skills before they relocate back to Montserrat.
Anonymous above have stated the difficulty that the Montserrat government have been experiencing with securing the British Government approval for some projects. I believe Montserrations in the UK have a key role to play in lobbying the British Government on issues that will assist with the redevelopment of Montserrat. I hope the next Montserrat Government will see the value of having so many Montserrations living in the UK and use it as an asset.
Well said Kyra!!
ReplyDeleteYou have captured exactly what I wanted to say in a nutshell. Lobby Lobby Lobby! Ask probing questions. Let the GOM and HMG know that people are watching. But also conrtibute.Sponsor a festival queen,or a youth athletics team. Send down gears and equipment for schools from time to time. Adopt and institution or even me!!
I repeat, CARICOM non-nationals are not the problem, they are a big part of the solution. It can be argued that if it were not for them Montserrat may not be the semi viable country it is now. Heck it could have been shut down by now.
ReplyDeleteOne observation I can make is that Guyanese are no experts on management of a country (the eveidence speaks for itself) however there may be one or two GT nationals who may be able to make a difference in a Montserrat Government.
I repeat, many UK Montserratians (not all) are simply sentimentalists who's patriotism is wafer thin, and consists mainly of rhetorical vapour. The truth hurts and many of you will be getting your knickers in a bind over that statement of fact.
I mentioned the Indian businessmen not out of dislike for them, but to show you where we are in fact losing our wealth creation opportunities; and please don't ignore the fact that they built their businesses with our capital from our banks and in some cases reportedly with support from well to do Montserratian individuals. This is not the fault of any Government.
Understand therefore where we the people have failed ourselves. Show me 3 vibrant local businesses that have been created by or suceeded with capital injection from Montserratian company's, groups or individuals in the diaspora.
And please don't talk no crap about lack of incentives. There are all sorts of waivers and tax relief on offer to returning Montserratians and businesses. If you claim ignorance to that fact then it is a clear example of why you should not vote, because you are not well enough informed.
Yes the information should be more readily available, but by the same token if you are serious the information is not hard to come by.
Stop the talking and walk the walk.
OK OK I've read 2 days of posting and am a Montserratian living on the island and quiet disturb. Most of my angry friends are those living in the UK and it is sad to say Forbes is correct, many non-nationals are in our schools and jobs. Even the africans have now infiltrated our country and there are very bright young ones in our schools who have already benefitted from scholarship such as BoM who recently awarded an intelligent african boy with purchasing of school materials etc.
ReplyDeleteZJB and the Montserrat Reporter is not sufficient enough to enlighten friends overseas as to what is currently taking place on Montserrat. We have forums where some of these issues have come to light and it is not an easy thing for me to hear some Montserratians say they will never return or will return just for vacation. I was once in your shoes but I chose to live here instead.
Everyday I see a new face, immigration cannot stop non nationals who are in key jobs from sending for other family members to come and join them. Perhaps immigration could be abit more firm on allowing some but they cannot stop all.
We have many nationals who are doctors but choose not to come at all because of the salary package the only one who have returned and played a key part in our health system has been Dr Ingid Buffonge. How about those who we send to study and they have not once return, have they ever consider coming and giving us their contribution for atleast 2 years rather than we having to hire the indians.
Jeevan, my long time friend, and kyra yes blogging is making people aware of what is happening and thank you but these are issues we who are here have discussed over and over, but it cannot be stopped unless we have a majority of die hard nationals on island to stare this magnificent ship we call the emerald isle. The low crime rate has been an attraction to our non nationals and the benefits that we enjoyed for years such as cheap health services etc.
ALmost every other day I see someone on the streets that I never saw before. I am not happy that they have come but we needed the increased population and still do and they have answered the call, they are buying land and building houses and starting businesses. I would have preferred my fellow country men and women to be doing these things but they are not, the non-nationals are trying to get as much as the rock as possible. My jeweller is a guyanese and I am aware that he has about 5 pieces of land, a couple located in Hope I would not buy land in Hope but he has. (he now has his british passport). This is just an example of what is happening on the island that you - my friends in the UK would not hear on ZJB or read anywhere.
Yes Kyra you are right our colleagues living abroad needs to do more and this would help with redevlopment but at the same time it would not stop the real situation here. The bottom line is we need persons to return home but we also need a government that is prone to ensuring that those who return get places to live etc in this current situation this is very unlikely as the finances is just not available. I have seen one or 2 country men and women return home on their own accord who are doing well without much assistance from govt. Key example is Colin Riley has return and now is a candidate.
My UK friends as I said it is not enough to listen to Reuben T Meade and Dr Lowell Lewis and others on radio to make a judgement on who you think should run the country for us here to live hence my reluctance to allow you to vote. Let me remind you that Montserrat is more smaller and there is not alot of things that can be kept secret and some of these are not aired on radio as someone rightly pointed out when you have a govt owned radio station there is a problem. Again having an independent radio station still would not solve the base line problem.
WHAT WE NEED IS FOR SOME MONTSERRATIANS TO RETURN HOME TO ASSIST US MINORITY
WOW? what a big man in a small country.let me say to you Mr.forbes adam's montserrat is too small for you ok and i only hope you get the point.yes you have a right to run your mouth we in montserrat allow that but your take yourwords too far. so let me say to you im a born montserratian would die one ok and one day i too would come back home and person like you i would love to shut up?why you have to go that far woith your words you fell that theirs too much dead dogs montserrat and you want to wake them up.well you just did ok i.ll be home for the christmas would love to shut you up darm out of place
ReplyDeleteJeevan, I am deliberately putting you on the spot to make an example, but please don't take it with any animosity.
ReplyDeleteDid you know that there is in fact a Communications Strategy that is supposed to focus on the diaspora? Did you know that there was a big consultancy to look at ZJB and the GIU and the dissemination of information and the inclusion of the diaspora?
Did you know that there is now an Information Communications ACT that has liberalised the information and communications industry in Montserrat?
You are supposed to be a bright and resourceful young man so get the documents soonest.
The door is wide open for you son. You could have applied to be the boss of ZJB and GIU and make the communication difference from within. If you were not refused you can't repeat the nonsese about nationals being overlooked.
Now you also have the opportunity to do anything you wish on an independent basis and attempt to make a change from outside. You can set up a radio station, a cable company or provide telephone service or Internet access etc.
Put a good plan together and you will get any amount of concessions regardless of which government is in power.
So put your money where your mouth is and let us know what brilliant idea you want us to assist with. No more yakity yak, and blah blah; lay out the action plan and get ready for execution.
Of course you can always say it is proprietary information at this time.
"An eye opener for all Montserratians" has indeed produced much discussion, 35 comments so far the most I have seen compared to the previous articles. Many of us had never heard of MNI Alive and now do, many others of us have read and not made comments on line, but it has certainly sparked a lot of discussion. In fact the articles are being shared in emails being sent among Montserratians in the diaspora. I have also seen comments which I wish could of been on the blog to further enrich the discussion.
ReplyDeleteDespite all the talk either for or against Forbes Adams, or what you want to do to him, we need to thank him for at least injecting us with some thing to wake up, Montserratians, since it seems we were sleeping.
HI
ReplyDeleteJust a quick note.
There are currently 12 jobs available on the Government website (www.gov.ms) Some are Directors posts. I do hope the Diaspora take up the challenge and apply.
Jus Wondering why Montserratians in Montserrat are so closed minded?
ReplyDeleteWhy are those there making this about Jeevan? He clearly stated he does not have all the answers, nor is he alluding that he does. He created this blog as a platform for us to come and exchange ideas.
Low the venom, and lets get to real issues please. Montserrat needs the diaspora! The only solution is not to return. There are other ways of helping. Just to return with out a plan will serve what purpose? People can we work on a plan and get off this weird division that's between us as Montserratians? Let's find that common ground which is clearly our love for Montserrat.
Jeevan, I apologise if I went to far in using you as an example. No ill will intended at all.
ReplyDeleteAnd I am certainly not blaming you for the excess of rhetoric and paucity of action from the diaspora over the years.
The following jobs are listed:
ReplyDeleteNursery School Teacher
Access Coordinator
Architect - Public Works Department
Area Foreman
Customs Officers
Director - DMCA
Director Lands and Survey
Director of Statistics
Director, Development Planning and Policy
Director, Human Resources
PRISON OFFICER
Vehicle Tester
I am willing to bet that there won't be 12 applications from Montserratians overseas in total.
They are going to say the salary is not enough.
But I can suggest that even with all the challenges we have in Montserrat you can build a house and buy a car with the salary from most of these jobs.
The banks have loans as low as 6.9%. All your building materials and furnishings and personal effects can be imported free as a returning montserratian and you get a car duty free as well. play your cards right and u can get free shpping for your personal effects as well. After that you learn to live within your means in the safest country on earth, what more incentive you want?
What would be interesting is for the modorator to organise a blog where the diaspora can select their 9 candidates and state why each was chosen. It would be interesting to compare this with what the resident Montserratians have in mind.
ReplyDeleteGreat stuff! Let the discussion flow!
ReplyDeleteTo the individual who spoke of my possible offense at being put on the spot, I am in no way offended or riled by your comments. That in effect would be shirking my responsibility as Editor of this blog. We can talk, and yes we can choose to disagree on matters of principle, policy, ideology and even religion; as long as we disagree respectfully towards each other that is fine. After all, we all who visit and comment on this blog love Montserrat and are thrashing out ideas as to how we think she can move forward.
That being said, some very sound points are coming out in the comments being posted and do rest assured that this blog is not just intended to be a hotbed for talk talk and more talk as a commentator alluded to. There are certain things that are being currently worked on that obviously would not be wise to make public now until their structures are properly refined. Kyra and others made some good suggestions; the lobby idea as Kyra knows is one that she and I have been discussing.
One central theme that I see coming forth in many comments though is that some commentators from home seem to have a negative perception of Montserratians who live in the UK. One person even went as far as to mention that UK Montserratians are a bit full of themselves and such and that 99.999% of them would not return to Montserrat. I do see the point that the person was trying to make and I do take his views on board but I do not truly believe that there is a situation where the majority of Montserratians look down or think themselves better than our brothers and sisters at home. Yes, there are some that will not return to Montserrat but also, I too have been out there engaging in conversations and many do desire to come back home.
The idea of having debate and discussion was knocked on the head by someone. I will not embark on a defence of this blog as I think its purposes are outlined and self evident. What I will say is that talking is the first step towards finding a solution. Talking and putting ideas in the pot can only help to enrich the debate about our redevelopment. Yes, action needs to be taken after the talking is done. As I have mentioned prior MNI Alive was started with a vision and that vision surely was not to be just a talking shop but rather one of the many mediums that can help to affect and implement change via discourse & via active participation working with Montserratians and friends of Montserrat to get our island moving towards a positive future.
I think it is important that I state that I am not against foreigners in our country, at no time has MNI Alive held that position. What my position is and has been for ages now is that we need MORE of our own people at the helm. That is my charge. I am concerned with the possibility of what Mr Adams mentioned becoming a reality. I am concerned that if our own people do not take a pro-active stance as to what goes on in our country, then Montserrat will be lost to us. Do I believe that the Diaspora by virtue of not living there are not qualified to make comments and suggestions? No, I take issue with that. Even if I were tomorrow to pack up & go back home, I hold firm that the Diaspora is vital to our redevelopment......(continued)
(Continuation)......The thing is that the Diaspora I speak of is not just the British Diaspora. Many Montserratians are also in the USA, Canada and elsewhere. So therefore if it is a situation where the Diaspora has not been aware of their significance to our island’s re-development then what we are doing now is bringing that awakening to everyone.
ReplyDeleteLet us not be caught up in mind boggling accusations, speaking of misplaced patriotism from our people abroad. I cannot see this to be an across the board fact amongst the Diaspora or the UK Diaspora as someone alluded to. Look at Jamaica, 20% of Jamaican GDP according to the Jamaica National Building Society Bank comes from remittances. That is the power of the Diaspora. That is what we should be pushing towards. Montserratians, enriching Montserrat economically & socially, whether at home & abroad.
Again, the voting issue was mentioned and I see both sides of the argument; however I still firmly believe that is not correct to narrow with argument down to the fact that Montserratians abroad do not live there. But I will address this matter so we can have more debate on it in a separate blog posting, so that we can take up the discussion further.
The communications strategy you mentioned I have heard of to be frank. I was simply replying and giving my thought process as to how I see the information resources of Montserrat being overhauled to a professional standard to provide an adequate and efficient source of information dissemination. E-government must of course be implemented into our communications policy going forward. And regarding me coming back home and so forth, well I did mention in an earlier posting today where my compass is pointing.
But please let us continue this debate and let us use this as a catalyst for change in helping to set a new course for our future.
You said "Look at Jamaica, 20% of Jamaican GDP according to the Jamaica National Building Society Bank comes from remittances. That is the power of the Diaspora. That is what we should be pushing towards. Montserratians, enriching Montserrat economically & socially, whether at home & abroad."
ReplyDeleteThat may be so, but given the peculiar circumstance that Montserrat finds itself in regarding our displaced population and current demographics, coupled with the economic downturn; I am willing to bet that the money going out of the country is right now more than the amount coming in.
Montserratians sending money to thier family in the UK, especially if they have children going to school.
Parents supporting their children in schools all over the caribbean UK and US.
Jamaicans, Trinidadians, Guyanese, Santos, Windward Islanders, Sri Lankans sending money back home to their families.
FCO and DFID staff sending back money to England.
Therefore, the remittance factor may not be working in the same manner in the case of Montserrat, reflect on that for a bit and you might agree that that is a once upon a time scenario which it would of course be nice to regain.
The Montserrat diaspora has to start to bank more money here, and invest in infrastructure and businesses. you can't rebuild a country with barrels and that in itself may be counterproductive to the growth of the local economy.
From the discussion, there seems to be a number of devils advocates who are only knit picking points that others are making.
ReplyDeleteIt needs to be noted that there's different approaches to everything and fighting down an individual's point is not the intentions of the discussion. This is looking very much as though individuals are on trial here.
Bitterness is very loud in here to say the least.
I would encourage anyone with heartfelt interest in our country and its redevelopment not to be distracted.
You are so right, not even 12 applications will be received from Montserratians. Why? Because if ur not Mr. & Mrs so and so child (good) and u r Mr & Mrs so and so child (bad) u will be overlooked for the job. The person incharge of HR will throw ur resume in the garbage b/c the money and perks of the job is too good for him/her. This is so wrong and is a huge turn off for us. They over look us and give it to the Non-Nationals. I am a VP of Marketing in a Fortune 500 company. I didn't achieve this position b/c of where I came from but my qualifications and experience in doing a good job. This is the mentality that the HR department should adopt in recruiting persons for jobs in montserrat.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing with foreign nationals living in Montserrat but the long and short of the problem stands with the Government who has the realm and the power to change the laws. Why are they so quick to issue nationality status to every willie nillie who comes to our country. They have the right to change the laws accordingly.
ReplyDeleteI think anyone who comes as a Caricom national should remain with status. They should be free to live and work yes until they can prove themselves worthy of our nationality. Hence my point right now is that the laws must be look at seriously and that people entering will have to wait a considerable number of years before being granted any sort of status or even holding a passport.
This dialogue will run for a long time and I am glad for one that it has come at this time, as the Government going into power can have a long and hard think about the road our country is going.
I am not saying there is anything wrong to have foreigners there but we must now question and re-visit the nationality laws of the land.
Another thing I do not understand why those Anonymous Montserratians are so angry. We have a right to speak out about what goes on there too, we have not sold our birthright. Some of us have left because the situation we were facing did not allow us at the time to stay, and we have migrated to improve ourselves and hopefully a large number of us would surely return. By the way Anonymous do u realise that many of us were holding down jobs there and maybe if we had not left there might not be the chance of u having one urself.
Let me used this Forum to let everyone living in Strat know that they Must go out in great numbers and cast thier vote come election day, I will also take this time to give my election endorsement To MR.Jermaine Wade, Glad to see a youth trying to keep the rock goin, once again when you do vote remember (WADE IS TO YOUR AID ) wow he should used my slogan LOL
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 11
ReplyDeleteWe Montserratians at home are not angry we are simply pointing out to Jeevan and others what are some of the real issues on Montserrat and letting you know - my fellow Stratians overseas what is really happening here and the fact that these are things that are not being communnicated to you.
I live on the island and I wrote my piece yesterday it was posted at 2.41pm on 18 August. It seems like alot of you did not read what I wrote and thought deeply about it. Remittances have been significantly reduced over the last few years check with BoM etc.
Kyra and Jeevan the real issue is not really about sending money home or investing in a business or sponsoring a show. The issue as Mr Forbes pointed out is where Montserratians are loosing its grasp on the island we all love so much. It is not that we here do not understand where our overseas colleagues are coming from we are simply seeing things differently from here thats what it boils down to
Our conceptualisation of what is currently occurring on island is DIFFERENT hence differing views. As I pointed out earlier reading articles or listening to ZJB is inadequate information for forming an opinion or your rationalisation as to knowing what is happening on island. The stats speaks for it self and we do not want to stray away toomuch from what prompted this entire discussion.
Let us re-read the first few conversations been the Editor and Forbes. That is the grassroot problem not things like sending remittances as these are to encourage growth and help improve the economy so people like me can get a loan.
WE NEED TO FORMULATE A PLAN TO PREVENT A GUYANESE OR A JAMAICAN PARTY TO TAKEOVER GOVERNMENT AND RUN THE COUNTRY
Editor stated "That is what we should be pushing towards. Montserratians, enriching Montserrat economically & socially, whether at home & abroad."
I agree with your statement but we are pointing out the fact that Montserratians on island are being outnumbered in terms of the make up of the population etc. Editor and my other blog friends this is the problem we need to rectify, we have no doubt that remittances will improve if the financial situation improves that is not the problem.
WE NEED PEOPLE TO RETURN HOME TO STRENGTH A MINORITY AND KEEP OUR CULTURE ALIVE
So let us stay on course with the initial conversation and continue from there.
When persons like me came to Montserrat some 30+ years ago, it was by choice. When we decided to stay it was because of love for this tiny island - a love which the lure of bigger and more developed places could not conquer. We stayed and we made Montserrat our home. Notice I said a home, not a waystation or a jump-off point to the metropole. I would proudly state that I was from Montserrat, and if my accent said otherwise,well nothing much I could do about that. I fiercely guarded the uniqueness that was Montserrat.My waking day was filled with the wonder of a sunny day in paradise, and my nights with the realization that I could sleep the peace of the dead without fear. My family was irritated that I could throw away the wonderful opportunities which a bigger life offered someone like me to live on a wee bit island. I made my choice.
ReplyDeleteCome the volcano and we all suffered and survived together. Thinking of it, those were some of the most exciting times of my life. Who lived them would understand exactly what I mean.
Then our social complexion began to change. We became a land of opportunity. We were sought-after, but for the wrong reasons. All in all, I thought "those of us who remain here" would have made it despite the volcano. But we did not make allowances for the Politicians who brought them in, all for the wrong reasons.
We who came pre-Soufriere Hills wanted to live in Montserrat and with Montserratians because of the common love we shared for our island. The post-volcano arrivals were our non-militant mercenaries, thanks to our politicians who encouraged their influx for diverse reasons.
IS THERE ANY WONDER THEN THAT MONTSERRATIANS ARE BOLDLY BEING TOLD THAT THEY WILL SOON BE AN INSIGNIFICANT ENTITY IN THEIR OWN ISLAND?
Blogger above, we have read both of your comments. I actually feel a relief, that a Stratian there, not afraid to express the need and want for us to return, as oppose to speaking to us with disdain.
ReplyDeleteHowever, to expect that people are tomorrow just going to up and return with out a plan is not realistic. We keep saying that a lot of us want to return, but it's like those who are in Strat do not want to hear it. Our confidence in the government of Montserrat needs to be restored before we leave everything that we have worked for and return. We need a plan. Having all these Montserratians back home and no plan will spell chaos.
We are one step in the right direction. Montserratians were woken up and now want to reclaim what's ours. The next step is to educate people on options, and work out ways in which we all can live comfortably in Montserrat.
I know there's a small minded thing going around in Montserrat saying "oh they just want us to fix everything for them to return to". That's not so. The people in Montserrat play a role, and the Diaspora play a role. The role of the people who are in Montserrat are to ensure whatever happens down there is in order and that things are improving. What's ever so wrong with that?
Like Jeevan keeps saying, a better Montserrat isn't just a better Montserrat for the diaspora. It's a better Montserrat for us all. I have spoken to many Montserratians who are on the island, and they are greatly displeased about a lot of things. Come on. Open your minds. Let's have a plan, and get this repatriation backt o Montserrat going!
Jeevan let me say, well done for starting up this blog! “Wade is your Aid” – I love it!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 11, I have to concur with CJ here: There are many factors that have to be taken into account before one relocates. There has to be put in place a short and long term strategy: I put to you that without a well devised plan your suggestion is inconceivable to many Montserrations living abroad.
I think that, for the near future, you and other fellow Montserratians on the island or who are ‘in the kitchen’ should continue to further engage in a dialogue with the Diaspora (like Jeevan and myself) concerning what can be done to ensure that the island of Montserrat remain for Montserrations. I do agree with a comment above that in the short term and with immediate effect, the incoming government need to review the current immigration laws.
The cultural argument you made is well taken, these things happen when people move around. We live in a globalise world; now we cannot be afraid of diversity. As a matter of fact maybe the incoming Montserrat Government need to begin to think about putting a diversity strategy in place - foresight is usually best! Therefore the Montserratians at home should challenge the political candidate on the issue of diversity as well as consultation on the current immigration laws.
However, in looking at the long term, what is the strategy for the Diasporas who intend to return? We can’t be afraid to think outside the box. Before we had the problem of 'man power but the immigrants are there and pulling there weight on reviving the economy. Let’s move forward and be more creative and think about what measures can be put in place to prepare Montserratians to come home. Can you just imagine the workforce Montserrat will have in 10yrs with so many coming through well trained and educated?
I also hope that this blog will unify Montserratians home and abroad with a common purpose.
Hi All
ReplyDeleteOne of the key points that I want us to consider, is that there is a distinct movement on Island that the Goverment should no longer be the prime driving force for development. In a way I am total agreement with that, but it wont be easy. Here is a key link where the diaspora can help. Thinking outside the box is not a system that government systems entertain, so it have to be privately driven. Out-sourcing is one good way, but it must be handled in such a way that it will not incur extra costs to the GOM and the population. Many out-sourcing proposals have been put forward, unfortunately all increase the cost of the products and services currently offered by government significantly. In addition there always seems to be a clause wether written or implied , that the GOM will bail them out if the outsourcing fails. Government does not want to hold on to these services, but are obligated to keep inflation in check.
Here is where a closer link with the diaspora and local business men can come in handy. With and extra injection of cash and new ideas, the private sector can grow, with out exploiting the public over a short space of time in order to maintain a short term profit margin.
There are many areas in health care that can be out sourced. Specialised health services like renal, optical,dental to no exempt persons and other services not yet covered by the Government system. The population base of employed people contributing to social security and income tax is way to small for these health services to be supported by the government at the fees currently charged. Imagine persons are fussing that fees are going to be raised in September.We are becomming to expect too much for nothing.
I also have issues with the MDC and the little Bay development. This should be thrown wide open to the public to devlop, subject to approved physical planning of course. Currently earth is just being moved from one place to another and back again for over a year. A waste of money if I may say so. Having one company in charge of the development, would give the city a very clinical look. I Feel the whole area should not have been tackled at once, rather selected areas be developed by multi partners. If this was done alot more progress would have been realised. Unless Jonnie, Brother Gas, BBC and Bank of Montserrat have deep pockets, I do not see them moving down there for a long while. This could have been avoided. 13years it took to approve the development. Remember the land was already purchased in the 80's so that was not a factor.
I guess what i am trying to put a cross in a rather long winded way, is that one should not expect much from the government or any government of the day..THEIR HANDS ARE TIED once they are in GRANT IN AID, and can not call any shots. The private sector has got to bite the bullet and take a chance and invest. I guess what saddens me is that the foreign investor jumps at the chance to "do a ting " on the island why we local hedge our bets. Yes I am guilty of that too.
This blog was wonderful. and i did enjoy reading through the entries. Its nomination day today. Let us all start pressuring all the candidates for their action plans. Testing their metal now before the election. Lets up put them in the corner or the pit and see how well they wiggle out (mind you, some politicians wiggle well with experience and are still full of fart!)Quizz them on issues brought up in this blog.. Probe if they are there for country or self. Have them commit to you and expose them when they slip. However praise them if they do get something right. MORE IMPORTANTLY!!!EXPLORE THE LONG TERM IMPLICATIONS BEFORE YOU IMPLEMENT A SHORT TERM FIX>
Anonymous 11
ReplyDeleteFinally we are making progress, Kyra of course their needs to be a plan for a plan was there however informal when Montserratians relocated in a hurry. So now people have settled, for those contemplating a return they must have a more formulated plan. I had one.
CJ, The reason why I understand where you are coming from was because I lived and studied for both my degrees in the UK, I have done exceptional in my life thanks to the Almighty. I am one who chose to return and have not regretted it one bit. I had a plan that I executed well prior to leaving the UK many have asked me why I was returning when I was offered a top job with a global organisation and decided no I have to make my contribution sooner than later. That was my decision and I do not expect others to follow. CJ, no do not get me wrong I do not expect people to up and return 2mrw. I did not as it took time to give up my flat etc.
Kyra am beginning to like you now that you are understanding where am coming from LOL.
CJ, I have had to deal with the small mindedness hands on especially when I came back at a young age and was given a top job and in other things that I cannot say or everyone would know who I am I will reveal myself to my long time friend Jeevan eventually. You would not really get this sort of behaviour alot in UK & USA because of the size and population of the country. Here everyones knows or have heard of everyone more or less still do not know the non-nationals but I see them in passing.
In terms of culture, I meant events like St Patricks Day and the reason for its celebration and the Easter Monday Relay and other similar events that we here continue with. Am thinking about continuity of these significant events. Non-nationals now are celebrating their country's independence and other activities here on Montserrat and I do not have a problem with this but when you have an increasing population of non-nationals then one would have to consider what may happen to our own celebrations down the road if the minority does not turn to a majority.
To my netball mentor and friend Rachel C I agree and understand and its been awhile since you visited the rock. We had some very exciting times back then although I was just a little tot when you came to live here I was the ball girl then when it goes off court.
One or 2 Stratians have returned for whatever reason and have gotten great jobs. Am I mad because our Financial Adviser is making more money than I am and we both have our degrees HELL NO, I happy because she is a MONTSERRATIAN & it is things like these I love to see.
Kyra, I agree its for the incoming government, islanders and the diaspora to come together and formulate the required strategies to assist those Montserratians who wish to return.
CJ, am actually beginning to imagine some of you who are well trained and educated coming to join me in working to make MONTSERRAT a better place.
I cant believe that some people are getting all angered up at all of the foreigners because of what one foreigner said....
ReplyDeleteFellow Montserratians at home and abroad, I am so deeply disturbed by the crap that i am reading concerning this so called Adams guy plotting to take over our beloved island. I think he is really crazy, crazy, crazy. This will never happen as long as I am alive. He should be deported immediately from our shores.
ReplyDeleteConsider this when you make your tiresome excuses as to why you can't come back now.
ReplyDeleteNo time will ever be the right time. How are you going to determine when you have enough money or education? How will you determine the exact right moment to cause some upheaval in your comfortable arrangents?
When many people left during the mass exodus in 97 and 98 they left out of shelters with no idea whatsoever where they were going to end up, and yet they made that leap of faith and things worked out in the end. There was no elaborate plan, just an understanding of what had to be done. Remember the rivers of tears down at the 'BITTER END"
Now you are in a position where you can plan an exploratory trip, not during Christmas party time mind you. You can make a calculated move and come home without giving up your lovely Council flat in the first instance. In other words you can come home and take your time and survey the lay of the land and see where you can fit in. If you are really serious it can work out. Where there is a will there is a way.
The class barriers you hear people speak of are more mythical than real at this point. There are opportunities available but you have to be quick and decisive.
Dudley Meade and Anonymous 6:20pm please read some of the responses carefully because alot of what the guy is saying is actually true things are happening here and non-nationals are becoming dominant force on Montserrat. Where have you guys been?
ReplyDeletePerhaps you do not know but let me tell you many non-nationals have British passports, can vote,have land and houses and have key jobs because they are the only ones applying. My work place advertise jobs recently and you have african and other non-nationals applying.
It is a reality!!!!!! Sorry it took this Forbes guy for alot of our diaspora to understand why we here are saying we need some Montserratians to return eventually.
Montserratians return will not solve anything!
ReplyDeleteCheck out this job at MDC
ReplyDeleteBusiness Consultant
Salary: $100,000 - $120,000 per annum
http://www.mdc.ms/?page_id=86
Note that the CEO is a Canadian and the salary is repoertedly in the region of $40,000.00 per month. per month mind you, not per annum. and a free vehicle to boot.
That is well over a million dolars in 2 years when you factor in end of contract gratuity payments.
We pay top dollar round here ok, so Montserratians in the diaspora take note.
It seems like y'all forget that Montserratians has been leaving Montserrat since the early 1920's and onward, not just when the volcano started. Why are those persons at home are forcing us to come back home. If there are 40K Montserratians living abroad where on God's earth you are going to put us (alongwith our children) on that tiny island and provide decent jobs and accommodation for us. Quite frankly I am happy where I am with my children and reaping the benefits of my hard work. Yes I love Montserrat to the fullest but in this day and age I will not return until I am retired. And yes, I do send home money on the regular to go towards my retirement.
ReplyDeleteWe must remember that all these countries we migrated to (USA, Canada, UK and others) needs immigrates to keep the country going. Canada alone immigrate over 20,000 persons each year. Every country whether big or small needs immigrates, so what makes Montserrat any different? It is sad that Mr Forbes came to Montserrat and living there for 10years and is a holder of a UK passport and feels like he runs Montserrat. Mr Forbes one thing I will tell you. In that passport you proudly holds states your place of bith "Guyana", if that is your place of birth. Just remember you are not a son of the soil so yes, if you don't abide by the law and feel like you can run Montserratians outta Montserrat you have another thing coming, because certainly we brothers and sisters and our Mother would not stand for it and you can loose that Nationality and be sent home to your native country.
There is nothing Mister about this J.A, Adam Forbes(and I dont mean Jamaica)who is telling us Montserratians abroad who left Montserrat due to reasons way beyond our control,what we can or cannot do in our stomping grounds. He is not worthy of our respect at this time and in my humble opinion is "Enemy of Montserratians Abroad".
ReplyDeleteI am so mortified by his comments that I got an instant headache. Forbes Adams I really dont know what rock stone you were living under before you found your heaven on earth, our beautiful and beloved Montserrat. But do me a favour please, please, please, I admonish you, do not ever miss the key of your brains and spout such ignorance to us. It is nothing but hog wash and you need to keep it to yourself.
I am living in a country, where the natives are catching hell from the foreigners who has invaded their space. As far as I am concerned, Montserrat too is full of foreigners who is bleeding the country. I was so taken back when I learnt that there is a Western Union in Montserrat and I can bet you any amount of money that it was not set up to facilitate incoming money transfers but instead to facilitate the money that the foreigners are sending back where they come from. Why dont you comment on things like that. Is the government of Montserrat taxing these monies that leaves its shores so frequently? Why dont you talk about that? The health and education system that the foreign children are benefiting from,which paid by the taxpayers of Montserrat. Why dont you talk about that? The other social ills introduced by the foreigners who have invaded Montserrat. Why dont you talk about that? I can go on and on but I will stop here.
In closing, I want you to stick this in your skull cap for the next time you want to make a similar comment. We Mongtserratians who are living abroad are making full use of the time we are abroad. Some of us has gone as far as returning to school to develop ourselves and are now professionals in the field of Medicine, Law, Education, Aviation, Engineering, Journalism and the list goes on and on. We are just awaiting the right moment to return to our beloved island to take our rightful place and make our contribution to take montserrat to a higher level way beyond its former glory and when we do, THE LIKES OF YOU WILL NOT BE WELCOMED IN MONTSERRAT ANYMORE.
Montserratians overseas,you all are getting hot and bothered. From reading the many comments on this blog it is clear that just reading articles, such as on this blog, hearing a news item on ZJB online does not paint the whole picture. I'm sure you are all familiar with the shock expressed by people who have visited Montserrat they always say "what they saw on television or heard did not prepare them for what they have seen with their own eyes ".
ReplyDeleteThis does not only apply to the destruction caused by the volcano but about the area that we now occupy. To this day many persons including Montserratians abroad still think that ash is flying around all the time down here. Note this is as recent as Caribana in Toronto 09.
From the posts on this blog, this is my observation:-
1. Some of our brothers and sisters overseas seem to think that we on Montserrat feel that M/rat belongs to us or that we are more Montserratian because we stayed - WRONG.
2. A lot of us seem to be upset with then and siding with Forbes & the non-nationals -WRONG.
3. We expect all of you to pack up and come home -WRONG.
What we on the ground are saying, is that people have always immigrated from smaller to bigger countries and vice versa, there is nothing wrong with that. Comparing a Montserrat when people immigrated in the 1920's up to pre volcano and post volcano migration from M/rat does not make any sense, the situation is totally different.
We all know why you had to leave, it is not like those of us who are commenting do not have at least a family member or several overseas whether UK, USA or elsewhere.
The crux of the matter is what has happenned since post volcano migration. It is now 14 years and the reality is that we are outnumbered on the island by non-nationals. As mentioned by another blogger we are celebrating all kinds of independence days and other special holidays that are not Montserratian, I cant even spell them so wont attempt. For example on August Monday when we used to go to St Peters for anglican Bazaar we are now competing with some Guyana function.
What we are trying to do is enlighten you brothers and sisters that you just cant say a non-Montserratian could never take over Montserrat because if we are left in the minority it is possible.
What we have observed is that we are not even seeing a trickle of Montserratians coming back to live on the island. All we are saying if we even see two or three coming home now and again to take the jobs available then more will trickle in, some of the other family members may also come, and it all adds up in the long run, but when the rate of return is virtually non existent who will be the Montserratians holding the fort.
The Statistics department reported we have close to 60% elderly folk many living in homes with the non-nationals taking care of them, they have already contributed and just spending their twilight years. The 40% of students we have in the school system all want to leave as soon as they finish MSS or MCC then who will be left.
What I hope this whole discussion Forbes has started can do, is help some of you passionate Montserratians out there who love M/rat to start making concrete plans to retun and take back your homeland. Just saying we need to change legislation with regards to immigration will not solve the problem, we did try to have the time required to become nationalized increased and it was stopped by HMG.
One hypothetical question -- if we were to have another snap election within another 6 months and Forbes & company are ready to contest, what you all gonna do to stop it?
If we are given the right to vote then we can input!
ReplyDeleteYuu are so right you will vote for one of the parties dominated by non Montserratians so how will that help
ReplyDeleteYou may very well vote the party that includes Forbes and dont even know, get the idea now
ReplyDeleteNow for a real practical analysis, within six months even if you started to lobby to allow overseas Montserratians to vote I know for sure the process would not be completed. So if Forbes & co. did run and the majority non -Montserratians vote him in then what.
ReplyDeleteNon-nationals are the ones! So why not?
ReplyDeleteThey are the ones cleaning my house
They are the ones looking after the sick
They are the ones feeding your grandmothers in the homes
They are the ones who 'protect' this country from crimes
They are the ones who teach your nieces and nephews and godchildren and grandchildren in the schools.
They are the ones who is buying groceries from the supermarkets
They are the ones who are paying taxes
They are the ones who is keeping western union open!! (yes I said it!, and might I add western union pay good taxes to fix our roads and pay for health care etc)
AND YES! I AM ABOUT TO GO TO ANOTHER LEVEL HERE SO BE WARNED
IF YOU DON’T WANT TO GET ANY MORE ANGRY STOP READING NOW!
They are the ones who entertain your husbands at night when you decided to leave Montserrat to live elsewhere because of situation beyond your control.
People seriously come on, wake up and smell the coffee, currently they have all rights to be in our country whether we like it or not.
These are the people who have more rights than you! And imagine you were born here.
They are the ones keeping us afloat people.
That is the reality of the situation. Montserratians abroad and those making comments. Why not use your energy constructively and come back home and help put some of these ideas into practice, you have obviously been thinking about this for a long time.
And anyone who wants to come home have no excuse! I’m tired of the excuses, you don’t have no house to come back to, you don’t have no job, did you have a job and house when you decided to go to England in 97-98 around that time? NO!
Come on people, Come on Montserratians…its not enough to talk and say this and that!
If you want to stay there stay there, if you want to come home come home stop the delaying. We need you.
Montserrat needs you! Please come back home!
I am saying this to anger you, so that you see the reality of the situation that is happening...
this is facts!! pure facts
Anonymous, its a pity you decided to hide your identity and not come out like a lot of us using our christian name. It would be nice to know exactly who you are as I am usually weary of people hiding behind assumed names. Nonetheless I take what you have said and understand where you are coming from.
ReplyDelete(To be continued...)
Btw...if we sound hot and bothered as you put it, its because of the passion and love that we share for our beloved country...i am sure you know what we are feeling.
Returning to Montserrat to take up residence there is not as easy as you might think. I am quite sure that you are aware that some of us are away for over 10 years. November this year will make me 12 years away from Montserrat and believe it or not, these are the most painful years of my life. You also have to bear in mind that living away for such a long period, some of us would have commitments in the country we migrated to. Pulling up stakes at this time without a firm plan in mind can be a big problem. Personally i believe that returning to Montserrat and not able to get a job to take care of your obligations in Montserrat and where you relocated from will not be practical or wise to say the least.
I agree with you 100% plus that there are more foreigners living in Montserrat than the indegenous Montserratians themselve. Who should be blamed for this? Its not the Montserratian abroad, its not the Montserratians at home. The blame should be laid squarely at the feet of the POLITICIANS who for one, feels that their votes are more important than the native Montserratians themselves and you know why right? Montserrat has always been a small society before the volcano and an even smaller society now since the volcano. The native Montserratians are very familiar with the politicians and they would know who they think will best represent them. However, a foreigner would not necessarily know about the individuals who approach them to solicit their votes, they just know them as Jane Doe or John Doe who is a political figure. These politicians would tell them things, which to the ears of the indegenous Montserratians are plain and simple "sweet nothing". To the ears of the foreigner, its sweet music. The promise of a job or some opportunity that they would never get in the land where they had to flee from because of the poor conditions. I even heard from reliable sources that when the immigration officers are doing their job, there is political interferenc in the name of votes.
In my opinion, native Montserratians want to compete with the foreign cultures that has imposed itself in the Montserratian society. If the native Montserratians dont fuel their culture, It will eventually die a swift death.
Continued...
ReplyDeleteLet me give you a scenario. I was in Montserrat December 2008 for a couple of days for the festival. I know historically that people would be shopping on Christmas Eve but come Christmas day, the club would start swinging from midnight. I got dress for the occasion and left home about 1AM with another friend who came for the festival as well. We drove down to Good Life and the place was in darkness. We went up to VIP, the place was in darkness too. We called a friend and he told us the only place that is swinging was in Cudjoe Head (downstairs Adelina Tuitt's place). Imagine it was Montserrat's Festival and the DJ was playing all foreign dancehall music for hours and the dance floor was crammed. I could not take it much longer so we decided to leave when a friend who was family to the DJ said he would go and talk to him so that he can play some calypsoes so we could enjoy ourselves. No sooner that the calypsoes started, the dance floor was like an empty parking lot. The teenie boppers who were there would not have any part of the calypso music. I said all of that to say, if the Cultural Department/Festival Committee were promoting Montserrat's Culture the way it should be done, the foreigners would have to fall in line. The Montserratians abroard who had come back home to enjoy the Montserrat culture instead had to settle for the Jamaican Dancehall Romping Shop and Dutty Wine diatribe. Wha sweeter than String Band Music & the Masquerade music? Did they died a swift death due to an overdose of the Spanish Meringue, the Jamaican Dutty Wine and the Guyanes Que Que?
Are we (the Montserratians abroad who left the country to you the ones who decided to stay and hold it down), to blame you for not doing a good job of preserving the culture of Montserrat and everything else Montserrat that we hold near and dear to our hearts? YES. Are we (the Montserratians abroad) to blame you for not being able to make the right choices and vote for the men and women who genuinely have Montserrat at heart and would come together regardless of the body politics and work together for the common good of the island? YES. Are we (as Montserratians abroad) to blame you for not getting it right again come 8 September 2009? YES. Are we (the Montserratians abroad) to blame you for the high fares for a 20 mins flight Antigua to Montserrat? YES. I deliberately said YES to all my questions because the Montserrations at home are not sticking it to the politicians and the Legislators like they should by holding their feet to the fire and demanding that they do what is best for Montserratians. Bearing in mind that there is no them without you, yes without your votes their dreams would never be realized. Montserratians should understand how powerful that X is and it can either make or break a politician. Using your votes wisely this time around would make the likes of Forbes Adams a non issue.
I just like to conclude by saying to Forbes Adams that "a word to the wise is suficient" and we the Montserratians abroad would never sit by idly (should a snap election be called in another 6 months)and allow him and his other foreign gang to gather strength and hijack an election in Montserrat and gain control of our beloved Island. HELL WILL FREEZE OVER FIRST.
Teresa I TIP MY HAT TO YOU BIG TIME. This Jamaican thing that is taking over Montserratians, especially the youths, is disturbing to say the least. Our young Montserratians at home are even talking like JAMAICANS. It upsets me. Please let's keep our Montserratian vibe alive!
ReplyDeleteSomeone earlier spoke of the lost generation--those who left when they were under 10. I saw a perfect example of that. The other day I went on my cousin's FB. He left Montserrat when he was 3. Low and behold where it asks what your hometown is. He has "Kingston, Jamaica". I was so appalled. Montserratians abroad, please teach your children about Montserrat. I'm begging you.
I can see from the comments made the theme which keeps resurfacing is mainly more "Montserratians need to return to Montserrat".
ReplyDeleteI believe that this is obvious and we would all agree that this is imperitive to our growth socially and economically.
There are comments here that:
Montserratians wouldn't have a clue about the political parties
Montserrat is slowly losing its culture
Non nationals are taking care of our people on the island
Non nationals are taking our jobs
Non nationals are owning our land
Non nationals are owning businesses
I totally understand why Montserratians at home will feel pressured by these facts. If someone can actually make themselves anonymous and go as far as trying to anger fellow montserratians (normally not a good method) to get us to come home, this shows that someone desperately is trying to instigate that some of us need to resettle back on the island.
I believe that this is not an easy task, for many of us have been through hell trying to settle after we immigrated especially without a plan and have learned some hard lessons from this.
I for one would not pack up my bags and move to Montserrat in a flash, however, Montserrat is my native land and I do intend to contribute to its redevelopment.
I am not here in England because I love it here so much,and I am sure other Montserratians will agree that we are here competing with a country of over 60million people.
We are given opportunities that we were never given back home and these opportunities are based on merit (sound policies and procedures).
Montserrat is our land regardless and we need to come together as this is one of the themes coming out of this discussion "togetherness". I pointed out earlier that unity is strength.
I am sure if nationals and non nationals come together and discuss these issues on the ground it will serve some good for our island.Nothing is wrong with non nationals settling and having rights there. What is wrong is them having too much power to control what is happening on our island.
Montserratians abroad are developing themselves out of their own pockets, we are not given anything here for free, it comes at a price.
Someone pointed out where will ALL Montserratians settle when they decide to return, this is not an excuse, this is a valid point.
I am interested to see if we can work together to get the ship moving.
I know some Montserratians will never return but for the ones who intend to return we can all work together to make it happen and make some meaningful contribution.
The Montserratians at home who make your comments even though you have tried to anger us abroad, I totally understand where you're coming from but please continue to work with us and keep on blogging to let those who will not return know what is going on!
I am sure you have done your best to stir some and they will return, I on the other hand have plans but this discussion is not about my personal plans this is about us as a people to devise meaningful longterm stategies as Jeevan has mentioned.God bless all!
Anonymous 11
ReplyDeleteI hope you all are listening to ZJB about this very topic
let me just put my two cent in TO HELP STOP ALL THIS HERE IN THE BRITISH VIRGIN ISLAND A LAW WAS PASS IN THE THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY ABOUT NINE YEARS NOW STATING THE FOR YOU TO HOLD AN ELECTED OFFICE YOU HAVE TO BE A BORN MONTSERRATIAN AND BOTH MOTHER AND FATHER HAD TO BE ONE SO YOU CAN,T COME FROM ALL OVER THE PLACE AND THINK LIKE MR FORBES IT EVEN GOES AS FAR BACK THAT YOUR GRANMOTHER /FATHER HAD TO BE A MONTSERRATIAN SO I WOULD LOVE TO TELL DOES POLITCIONS WHEN GET ELECTED GET THAT LAW ON THE BOOKS EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO COME HERE IN THE BVI AND GET THE DETAILS OF THE LAW NOTHING IS WRONG WITH YOU LIVING AND WORKING IN OUR COUNTRY BUT WHEN YOUR TAKING ABOUT HIGHJAKING ANEXT MAN COUNTRY THATS WRONG
ReplyDeleteSomeone raised the point about losing our culture and the type of music our young people are listening to.
ReplyDeleteI want her to do a little bit of reflection and she would see a major part of the problem.
Think back to your class at the MSS and the year in front of you and the year behind you. Then tell me what percentage of those age groups still remain in Montserrat? What percentage has traveled overseas and come back to contribute?
I believe you will agree that those percentages are woefully low.
So I submit to you that it is the collective WE who are responsible for not passing on the cultural traditions, and a large part of it has to do with the lack of numbers.
I can probably only count 8 out of my graduating class of 25 who still remain on Montserrat. When I go out and speak out about certain ills in the society I am a lone voice in the wilderness. The younger folks say "get with the program". So if you think we can preserve all that you knew and love for you, sorry my dear but the numbers are against us. We need you on the ground.
N.B. All the banks in Montserrat have a need for local top and middle Managers. Bank of Montserrat recently hired yet another non-national Manager.
Yes I was listening to ZJB radio today and on the issue, I think Cheddy & the panel did not given it due attention; dismissing it as someone simply trying to insight fear in the Diaspora. It is beyond fear. This issue is real and government legislation needs to be either adjusted or implemented from stopping foreign nationsl from overtaking our island. That is the crust of this initial discussion.
ReplyDeleteI posed a question to the panel as to how they intend to engage the Diaspora overseas. They mentioned technology is available but were very scant on details as to how they will use technology and what technology they plan to use to engage the Diaspora. No confidence was inspired from my point of view that they saw this as a matter of significance. That right there is an issue of policy that was in my view seen as trivial by the panel. I suppose they will suggest otherwise or provide information contrary.
My next blog entry for tomorrow's article will focus primarily on the voting issue, so we can have a dedicated debate on this.
Anonymous 11
ReplyDeleteJeevan I know you are adamant about the voting issue. However, I personally feel we should be concentrating on the what strategies we need to put in place to assist Montserrat with its redevelopment and population growth as Kyra, CJ, myself and others alluded to.
Voting is everyone's right but How will your vote assist with the redevelopment of Montserrat at this time?
The only answer I can garner from your views are once on invest in Montserrat you should be able to vote. Would that help the situation we find ourselves in as derived from the many converstions above that we here in Montserrat have enlightened you about? Perhaps, a little
To Jeevan
ReplyDeleteI also listened to the panel discission and do not agree with your take on the Diaspora issue.
The Diaspora issue is not a current bread and butter issue for an immediate fix to short term pressing problems. As Mr. Brown pointed out the electorial process is inshrined in law. For the Law to be changed it must have dialogue,consensus and then applied pressure on politicians as there is not functioning legislature in terms of policy. Not something that can be fixed before Sept 8th 2009. Housing,Health, Education, Agriculture, Access to the Island are the more pressing issues, as there are programmes and policies already in place and may only need a few tweaks to get them up and rnuning properly. Within 3 months the changing of the election system should then be looked at. As you can see it is not and immediate election issue as it can not be changed b4 Sept.
I have seen quite a bit of talk that the neighbouring islands diaspora can vote in thier respective countries election, but that is not quite the case. Many of the countries only allow the absentee ballot if the person is studying or on national duty. All others in the Diaspora must be present or domicile on the island for a period of time prior the to elections or for a period of time prior to the updating of the voters list.
I am in support of the diaspora voting but they must demonstrate that there is some active involvement in the affairs of the country.
The long and short of it the Law has to be changed, which should also include the issue of immigration and reverting back to the more sane system of ONE MAN ONE VOTE.This can only be achieved through consultation. So get your group together for the UK and rally other interest groups from the USA, CANADA and the neighbouring islands to make sure your fully represented when the time comes.
Not to be selfish but the current issues for this election were adequately addressed by today's panel as it pertains to those who are eligable to vote.
Anonymous 11, I see you are harshly against the voting issue equally and I respect your views. I fully expect your strong opposition to my article tomorrow.(smile)
ReplyDeleteAs I keep saying, the stance of MNI Alive and one that is also shared by Kyra, CJ and those others you mentioned, is that the voting issue is intricately also concerned with the entire ethos of our redevelopment. It is discussion that needs to be had and I do not support the closed argument towards it about more are out than in, hence why I think we should further address it via this medium and others.
I would hope that you have read my previous blog entries and articles also prior to this and will see that I am a strong advocate of us 'the people' putting plans together to get our island moving again.
That is the driving force of this medium, MNI Alive, as I have repeatedly stated. So yes, let us discuss ideas to move forward but in the same token let us also discuss and debate matters many individuals deem as pertinent.
Currently, I am putting together a team to put such ideas forward and to be active in the redevelopment of our island. Do let me know if you would like to join our efforts.
I do not think at any point I have said or implied that that voting issue should be fixed before Sept 8th. That is unrealistic I know.
ReplyDeleteMy dialogue on this matter is one to be looked at for the future, I never assumed or thought it possible for this to be done for this election as that would be utter folly. I do not know why you would think I would expect that. I do know ther are legislative procedures to follow and I do know that concensus needs to be sought etc. The very reason why I say let's discuss this.
If you read carfully my previous postings on this, my position is very clear. But we will talk more on this in the comments to my blog article for tomorrow.
The electoral law in Montserrat is actually quite fair to Montserratians; it is simple, you must be Domiciled in Montserrat and Resident therin at the time of registration; and there is provision for continous registration; Of course since we don't have absentee ballot you also have to be in Montserrat on election day.
ReplyDeleteQuestion for you Jeevan. If and When you get the right to stay in England and vote for someone in Montserrat, will you be prepared to give up the right to vote in the country in which you and your children are actually living?
Others can feel free to answer this question as well.
My answer to that is a resounding yes. England for me has always been a temporary stop. For others it may be different but ho holds barred; yes.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 11
ReplyDeleteOh no my friend Jeevan I am not harshly against the voting issue at all am just being adamant that I do not feel it is the most pressing issue at this time as strategies to assist with the redevelopment of Montserrat is required not later but now.
I actually concur with my colleague above who mentioned the absentee ballot concept. My rationale is our young voters who are going off to study as I type would not be able to cast their vote prior to their departure and most naturally they will be the ones who rtn in a yr, or 2 or 3 or 4.
Ok and am saying due to the fact that this voting issue would not occur in sort order let us delay the discussion abit until perhaps later this year but commence the strategic plans to assist with redevelopment, population growth of Montserratians, health, education etc. Let us discuss things that we would want in incoming government to tackle.
Let the voting issue be dealt with later this year not that I want us to side step the discussion but to discuss more pertinent issues.
From all the comments that I've read the common denomenator is Immigration and Voting Rights. I was listening to ZJB this morning with the panel from MLP (I couldn't turn up the volume to loud as I am at work). Cheddie raised an important point that we need to contact our MP regarding laws of our land. The main issue here are our non-nationals coming to M/rat and want to run for electoral office and given voting rights. If someone has contacts in M/rat to post a copy of the section of the law regarding immigration and voting policy with respect to Nationals and Non-Nationals that would be great. From there we can see where we as Montserratians (at home and abroad) can lobby to the New GOM to have this law re-written to protect us from the like of Forbes. We need to make it more harder for the Non-Nationals to gain a stake in Montserrat.
ReplyDeleteA quote from the election act
ReplyDeleteQualification of voters
12. (1) Subject to the provisions of subsection (2), every person who—
(a) has attained the age of eighteen years; and
(b) is not a person of unsound mind so found under any law in
force in Montserrat; and
(c) is a Commonwealth citizen; and
(d) has resided in Montserrat for 36 months immediately
preceding the date of registration as a voter or is domiciled in
Montserrat and is resident therein at the date of such
registration; and
(e) is not disqualified under the provisions of this Act from being
registered as a voter;
Elections CAP. 01.04 13
Revision Date: 1 Jan 2002
LAWS OF
MONTSERRAT
shall be entitled to be registered as a voter and, when registered, to vote at
an election:
Providing that a person who is domiciled in Montserrat may, if he is
not resident at the date of registration as a voter, nevertheless be registered
as a voter and vote, if he is out of the country to follow a recognized course
of full time study or training and obtains a certificate to that effect from the
Ministry of Education. (Amended by Acts 11 of 1980, 2 of 2000 and 16 of 2000)
(2) No person shall be registered as a voter or be entitled to vote at
an election who has been sentenced by any court in Her Majesty’s
dominions or in any territory under Her Majesty’s protection to death,
penal servitude, or imprisonment for a term exceeding twelve months, and
has not either suffered the punishment to which he was sentenced or such
other punishment as by competent authority may have been substituted for
the same or received a free pardon from Her Majesty.
I can see that we are gearing up for a very interesting debate on the voting issue. I am currently writing the article to be posted tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteTo Anolymous 11, I do agree with you 100%. There are lots of important things to talk about and I did contemplate as to what my next article should be about for quite a while.
I do think that there are a lot of misconceptions and also some important points on both sides that have been coming forward regarding this, hence why I editorially decided to pursue further the voting issue so we can have a dedicated debate on it.
Following this, we will wholeheartedly engage in your suggestion.
How do you qualify as an elected member
ReplyDeleteTaken from the constitutional order.
Qualifications for elected membership
27. Subject to section 28 of this Constitution, any person who—
(a) is a Commonwealth citizen of the age of twenty-one years or
upwards; and
(b) has resided in Montserrat for a period of three years
immediately preceding the date of his nomination for
election, or is domiciled in Montserrat and is resident therein
at the date aforesaid,
shall be qualified to be elected as an elected member of the Legislative
Council, and no other person shall be qualified to be so elected or, having
been so elected, shall sit or vote in the Council. (Amended by S.I. 2000 No. 1339)
Disqualifications for elected membership
28. (1) No person shall be qualified to be elected as a member of the
Legislative Council who—
(a) is, by virtue of his own act, under any acknowledgement of
allegiance, obedience or adherence to a foreign power or
state;
22 CAP. 01.01 Constitution
Consolidation Date: 1 Jan 2002
LAWS OF
MONTSERRAT
(b) holds or is acting in any public office or in the office of a
Judge of the High Court or of the Court of Appeal;
(c) is a minister of religion;
(d) has been adjudged or otherwise declared bankrupt under any
law in force in any part of the Commonwealth and has not
been discharged;
(e) is a party to, or a partner in a firm or a director or manager of
a company which is a party to, any contract with the
Government of Montserrat for or on account of the public
service and—
(i) repealed;
(ii) has not within one month before the date of election
published in the Gazette and in a newspaper circulating
in the electoral district for which he seeks election a
notice of setting out the nature of such contract and his
interest, or the interest of such firm or company, therein;
(f) is a person certified to be insane or otherwise adjudged to be
of unsound mind under any law in force in Montserrat;
(g) subject to subsection (2) of this section, is under sentence of
death imposed on him by a court of law in any country, or is
serving a sentence of imprisonment (by whatever name
called) exceeding twelve months imposed on him by such a
court or substituted by competent authority for some other
sentence imposed on him by such a court, or is under such a
sentence of imprisonment the execution of which has been
suspended;
(h) is disqualified for membership of the Council by virtue of
any law in force in Montserrat relating to offences connected
with elections; or
(i) is disqualified for election by any law in force in Montserrat
by reason of his holding, or acting in, any office the
functions of which involve—
(i) any responsibility for, or in connection with, the conduct
of any election; or
(ii) any responsibility for the compilation or revision of any
electoral register for the purpose of any election.
(Amended by S.I. 2000 No. 1339)
(2) For the purposes of subsection (1)(g) of this section—
(a) two or more sentences of imprisonment that are required to
be served consecutively shall be regarded as separate
sentences if none of those sentences exceeds twelve months,
but if any one of such sentences exceeds that term they shall
be regarded as one sentence; and
Constitution CAP. 01.01 23
Consolidation Date: 1 Jan 2002
LAWS OF
MONTSERRAT
(b) no account shall be taken of a sentence of imprisonment
imposed as an alternative to or in default of the payment of a
fine.
For the above insert on the constitution...
ReplyDeleteHow many of the nominated members complied with section 28 (e)(II) ????
Thanks to the person who gather the information for me so quickly. I can see our passion for Montserrat. From what I see any and everybody has a right to vote in Montserrat including illegal aliens (if we have any). The laws and constitution of Montserrat needs to be revised and rewritten. Certainly I will go through this with a fine comb to see where we as Montserratians can protect ourselves. I have posted my name so that I can be properly addressed.
ReplyDeleteJennifer are you a lawyer? I think Jeevan lobby group would need a lawyer.
ReplyDeleteThank you Jeevan for this blog, and also everyone who has been commenting. This is very helpful. Lots of people are reading. I will make my contributions as necessary.
ReplyDeleteMy friends, we all know that it is always the best thing to be a first class citizen in a second class country than to be a second class citizen in a first class country, hence my reason for moving and remaining here in beautiful & peaceful Montserrat.
ReplyDeleteI am amazed that my comments created such a stir among the Montserratians in the Diaspora.In the latter part of this blog there has been a more sane approach in dealing with the situation on ground here on the island,but there are also some misconceptions, for eg. there are a lot of talk about changing the constitution to prevent us "non born Montsrratians " from holding political office, that is a farce my friends. Fortunately we have the British Government on our side. We all know that the GOM tried to increase the years that one has to live here in order to obtain permanent residency, but HMG wisely objected and prevented that injustice!!! So good luck in trying to change the law which is even more complex.
One thing we can all agree on, is that, in order for Montserrat which we love dearly to prosper, we all need to integrate, "non born" as well as "born" even though we "non born" would be the dominant force in 5 years. No one can deny that fact.We also cannot deny the need for action to get Montserrat moving. It is that need which is itself the rational for this debate. Our disagreements only differ in degree, not in kind. We all want to see a prosperous Montserrat. We therefore cannot be expected to start off with some ideal or perfect arrangement. We can and must,of course, try to work together.Montserrat belongs to all of us,those like me who came here,those who left for "greener pastures" and those who remained.
So in closing I will like to offer an open invitation to my friend Jeevan to come along and join us on our platform in the year 2014, God's willing.
See you then.
Mr Forbes Adams... You forget that there is always the option of independance. That way we as Montserratians can and most probably will change the constitution and laws to prevent you from achieving your motive.
ReplyDeleteI would not agree that the British Government is on your side. I would suggest Montserrat has a pompus Governor with a short fuse and a gullable Attourney General that really does not know what he is about. Both have made errors in judgement recently and it is just a matter of time before one or both would be requested to make and exit.
Once a decent team makes adequate representation to the house of commons, it would be relised that the current state of affairs i.e Voting at large b. constitution order c. The immigration act d. election act and I would even go as far as to say some aspects of the infamous white paper will just not work in Montserrat. So enjoy your stay while your here, being a citizen does not exempt you from being deported, as it can be revoked.
All.. I just happened to find out that Mr or Mrs or Ms Forbes Adams does not exist here in Montserrat and the name used is a fake. Obviously he or she cannot come clean and use his or her right name because they know fully well they will be leaving on the next plane to wherever they came from.
ReplyDeleteWe have also discovered their IP Address which will be taking up with LIME for further investigation as to who the real "Forbes Adams" really is. Will keep all fellow Montserratians posted on this issue.
Yes, when I saw the last posting I definitely thought that Mr Adams is using an alias as a cover to his true self.
ReplyDeleteAt least though, we have a full indication as to his mindset and God only knows how many other persons he has recruited into his line of thinking. Madness.
We have a case for action and to instigate reform of our electoral laws, let us not simply sit on this and expect it to go away because this situation is real.
My new article will be posted today on the blog at 12:00PM GMT, 7:00AM Eastern.
Note as far as I know Forbes has not committed a crime, so on what basis will Lime reveal the identity of the IP sddress. As far as I know it has to be a criminal case put forward by law enforcement.
ReplyDeleteForbes you are thinking 5 yrs from now you will be CM of Montserrat. Just to let you know within that 5yrs the Laws, Immigration and Constitution of Montserrat will change to protect Montserrat from the likes of you. The laws and constitution was written and amended by an Attorney General who was a Non-Montserratian, who therefore didn't have Montserrat interest at heart. We as Montserratians were blindsighted by this but not anymore. We are pulling the reigns at home and abroad, and will be taking a keen interest in Electoral Reform, and the Governing of our beloved Montserrat. This time around the New GOM will have to listen and act accordinglu. We are wiser and stronger.
ReplyDeleteYes, I am in somebody "greener pasture" and you in mines. The difference between us is that we live and abide by the laws of the land and not try to bully those who have builded the country to what it is.
Currently there is no legal/official designation or definition anywhere for a "Montserrat Citizen" or a "Montserratian".
ReplyDeleteThe documents that we use to prove our nationality to other country's officials either say "British Citizen" or "British Overseas Territories Citizen".
When are we going to deal with this little small issue?
On all application forms for PR Status or Citizenship you've been asked which country you born and your Nationality. You were born in Montserrat and hold British Citizen. Get the point.
ReplyDeleteWe are closing in our search of "Forbes Adams" and discovered he lives in the St Johns area here in Montserrat between LIME and MUL (formally MONLEC) offices.
ReplyDeleteI wish to remain Anonymous because I am carrying out my own private investigations at this time. But I must tell all, I am able to detect usage of the internet through wireless connections and are able to pick up Forbes Adams IP Address.
I did my own little digging as well on the "terrorist" Forbes Adams and found out that he was using an assumed name. Forbes Adam is nothing but a coward and if he knew he really had what it takes to hijack our beloved Montserrat in the next five (5) years, he would not hide behind an iron curtain.
ReplyDeleteI honestly believe that his action can be deemed criminal because what he did was tantamount to terrorism and terrorism is a criminal offence. He was able to create an environment of fear and anger at the same time. His intentions were to deceive the massive of Non Montserratians abroad and this type of behavior should not be condoned in any society. I can go further and say that his action can be looked upon as a "divide & rule" tatic, where he intended to start a "war" between the Montserratians at home and the Montserratians abroad to enable him to further his wicket schemes i.e taking over Montserrat in the next five years. So while we are busy cutting each others throat, he and his gang would be gathering strength like a category five (5) hurricane and hijack our island. If we were to looked at the scenario in that context, it is indeed criminal and I might even add fradulent.
With all that said, I strongly believe that we as Montserratians should strive to live together be it in or outside of Montserrat. We cannot afford to be derailed as we know what Montserrat means to us and what she has done for all of us. If its one thing we ALL can agree on is "Montserrat was there for ALL of us" in her glory days. She fed us, She disciplined us and she educated us. So in her time of need let us be there with her as she was with us.
I am making an appeal to ALL Montserratians abroad to come back home in your numbers this year to enjoy the Christmas Festival in December 2009 and celebrate her and enjoyed her like we use to do back when she was in her glory days.
Much Love to ALL Montserratians at HOME and ABROAD...let us continue to live and love each other, in Peace and Harmany because UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL...GOD BLESS!!!
To the 2 posts above
ReplyDeleteI hope you know that what you are doing is illegal. Unless the person is suspected of commiting a crime,caused an act that is equal to treason, or stalking you, you have no right to 1. Trace the IP address 2. Expose the persons true identity.
As much as we do not like the persons comments, doing something wrong to expose him/Her or it does not make it right. Be aware the "authorities" in Montserrat have the ability to track your activities too and you could end up being the sorry one.He/She or it is not worth it.
Hi All, contrary to a previous blogger, there is in fact a Forbes Adams living here on island, that Anonymous was just trying to please the readers.I did an intensive search and I found the culprit. His second name is Forbes,every one here knows him by his first name. For his security I will not publish his first name,because I persnolly think he did all born Montserratian a favour by raising the topic. He is actually living here on island for twelve and a half (12 1/2)years and not the ten (10)he said.He does has political aspiration, so my fellow country men please be aware!! This is no joke
ReplyDeleteFor general information looking up someone's IP address is elementary stuff. You even get the Google map of the IP address but it is useless in pinpointing the location of the individual when it comes to Montserrat. The location mentioned in a previous blog is way off track.
ReplyDeleteMs Roseau, your suggestion to your fellow Montserratians to come home in numbers for Christmas is a step in the right direction.
ReplyDeleteI am a non-Montserratian who has been living on Montserrat from just prior to the volcanic crises, and may I say still living here, so of course I have what all of us want to have my passport.
ReplyDeleteI have been reading this blog since I heard about it, and have finally decided to comment. I consider myself just as capable as any of the candidates currently offering themselves for this election and so I am seriously considering offering myself next time around. For those of you overseas we are very involved in a lot of community affairs & groups apart from our own country organizations, Red Cross, Lions club, Optimist club,Singing groups ,church and PTA just to name a few.
What I know for sure is that I will be getting a lot more votes than many of the current candidates, because I can count on my other non-Montserratians to support me, even those not from "back home" as it is obvious I will be sympathetic to their issues. Do you know how we voted en masse for a particular candidate last election.
By the way the addition to the voters list, do you know the number of new voters? and how many on it are Montserratians? I'm sure someone can post the details almost immediately.
Most of the candidates are recyles from the past elections, and of the new candidates it is guaranteed that 75% or more will not get back their deposit. I can understand your plight, but unless there are other Montserratians who will come back and are in a position to offer themselves all this old talk about no non -Montserratian will be able to be part of the government is just plain nonsensical.
I have no problem with Montserratians running their native land, but if there is another round of recyles next time, I will be very interested.
Forbes Adams is a dodgy character who comes under the heading of Anonymous on some of these posts as a cover up and come back as him or herself in others. He / She is quite intelligent which I must say is an A+ considering the majority of "foreigners" living in Montserrat are illiterate and are using Montserrat as a stepping stone to go to England.
ReplyDeleteWhat we do know.. he / she uses a laptop knows some of Montserrat laws and is very bitter towards Montserratians so he / she was probably hurt by some some fair or unfair justice which was received. And illegal or not, the IP Address from the computer used was found to be same under the name Forbes Adams as well as one of the Anonymous posts. The name Forbes Adams does NOT exist on Immigration files in Montserrat and the surname Adams for those who are living here on island have not been on island for 12 or more years.
What on earth am I hearing here? Are we living in a communist country? Why are people resorting to snooping out IP addresses?
ReplyDeleteThe man did not commit a crime he merely excercised his democratic right to speak.
The truth hurts, and the reason why it is hurting some people is becuase they are guilty of having no real reason why they are not back in Montserrat at this time. Some of them have not made any exploratory steps at all and are woefully out of touch with today's Montserrat.
Well my dear friends, Montserrat is now a country where the people teaching our children are Guyanese and Jamaican; the healthcare workers are non-national, The bank managers are non-national, the maids are non-national, the labourers are non-national, etc. So you see we here at home have no time for hating or disliking non-nationals or even worrying if they may end up in Government. It may not happen in 5 years but there is no question that on the current demographic trajectory that it will happen in the future.
The sooner you silly people who are worring about the man's identity and location realise that we should focus on what he said and not who he is, the better for all concerned.
Anybody interested in IP addresses should go and live in China or North Korea.
Mr Editor, I think you need to step in here and conclude this blog, although I know you attempted to do so, by posting a new topic despite the activity on this posting.
ReplyDeleteHowever as the previous blogger said and I have to agree, the "DIASPORA' is so out of touch with what is going on in Montserrat they have now gone off on a tangent with tracing IP address.
Maybe your conclusion could guide them towards using their energies more productively.
We who live on Montserrat are not really worried about Forbes and you may ask why, because we live here and can analyse the situation. I must say thanks to Mr Forbes for initiating this discussion, and also to you for having this forum.
I would like to pose some questions to everyone who have been following this topic. I am a Montserratian but I am married to a non-Montserratian and my children are American, that means there are three nationalities in my family of four.If I were to move back to Montserrat, would my husband and my children be classed as Montserratians or non-Montserratians? Would I be able to benefit from the 'perks' that some are saying nationals should have and my husband and children treated differently? I think that a lot of Montserratians are in the same situation where their spouse is of a different nationality and their children yet another nationality. Is the answer to the problems then so straightforward?
ReplyDeleteTo the lady above. There really is no big nationality issue in Montserrat. We live in love and harmony here. As a matter of fact skilled non-nationals are the only ones who get 'perks'. Why? Because we NEED them.
ReplyDeleteOur Montserratians in the diaspora have gone away and acquired valuable skills but many seem to think they are too good for Montserrat now. So we have to import our labour and pay top dollar for it.
Even those Montserratians with basic qualifications say to their friends that they will only come back if they get a supervisory or managerial job. Many have developed an overblown sense of importance and think they are in a different league. In truth they are just woefully out of touch.
Montserrat has moved on from the place you once knew and the fact of the matter is that Montserratians who have been away over 12 years will have to go through just as much of an integration process as someone from another country.
I was just reading the newspaper and came across this article.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.themontserratreporter.com/index.pl/article_local?id=3512709
Note their stated objectives in their organisation's constitution.
Seems to me that these are people who are committed to the development of Montserrat.
I for one welcome them wholeheartedly.
Can someone post the corresponding section of their Montserrat organisation's constitution in the country or city where they live?
MNI Alive does not condone or encourage any Big Brother type activity of any sort on our forum. In fact that is why I allow individuals to comment anonymously instead of having to sign in to post a comment. MNI Alive is more interested in what persons have to contribute to the discussion/debates & not who they are.
ReplyDeleteThe situation with the IP address snooping is one that concerned me. I assumed the only reason why one of our commentators did so was to ascertain who Mr Forbes Adams is.
We do not support such activities as Mr Adams does have a right to speak; we should only be thankful that we are now privvy to his innermost thoughts and look to organise ourselves at home an abroad to curtail such an eventuality such as what Mr Forbes stated.
We do not condone IP address snooping and would kindly ask that everyone use this forum in a respectable manner.
I will not permit any attempts to disclose where Mr Adams can be located via this medium.
Thank you very much for this comment Mr Editor. It is time for us to move forward and pay more attention to what is being discussed and finding solutions, rather than trying to find out who is posting a comment.
ReplyDeleteThis has been the essential problem with Politics in Montserrat. We focus too much WHO said something and not enough time analysing the merits or demerits of WHAT is being said.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, there is some merit to examining to character of the messenger. Smooth talkers with too many allegations and other baggage should not get a bye. Where there is smoke there is Fire.
That is why Elections in Montserrat is still more of a beauty contest than an objective excercise to select capable and reliable persons with strong moral fiber and good ethics.