For this week’s article I decided to bring further to the fore the voting issue and the case for the inclusion of the Diaspora in the electoral process & re-development initiatives in Montserrat. I listened to ZJB radio’s In The Pit programme hosted by Mr Basil Chambers, where I heard a political candidate stating that the case for absentee voting is an emotional one; that individual even going further in stating that he is very much against the expansion of voting rights for the Diaspora as there are too many Montserratians abroad.
These points of view are often repeated and they do have their merits. However, what I will suggest is that the argument for seeking electoral reform for the future goes beyond the limitations of emotional discourse. The discussion has to elevate beyond that.
There are certain misconceptions that I aim to dispel at this moment; the first being the view held by some that those in the Diaspora who seek electoral reform of the current laws are expecting this to be a process completed for the Sept 8th elections. This is certainly not so. What is being advocated is an active re-engagement on this issue via a consultative process whereby Montserratians in the Diaspora and also those at home can debate & discuss possible reform in an analytical and knowledgeable fashion. Any reform of the voting act to include the Diaspora is a dynamic constitutional issue and we should aim to take this above mere dismissive talk of emotions and the basic argument of more Montserratians are abroad than in. The harsh reality is that the current electoral act amended and passed in the house back in 2000 does not serve our sustainable interests.
The elections commission who reviewed the then existing legislation back in 2000 was led by Sir Howard Fergus. The report contained 12 recommendations. Recommendation 1.4. stated that the Government of Montserrat proposed that a short period of residency should be added to the criteria for Montserratians overseas to be able to cast a vote.
Additional statements were released by the then sitting Governor stating: "After careful deliberation it has been accepted that it would be extremely difficult to put in place a workable and verifiable arrangement to establish such a period of residence. The Government of Montserrat has therefore decided not to accept Recommendation 1.4 of the Elections Commission's report.”
First Nominated Member of Parliament, Mr Frank Edwards, in the Legislative Council when the matter was being debated went so far as to raise concerns about the voting rights of Montserratians overseas. Mr Edwards stated in Parliament that “Montserratians overseas have a right to vote and it should not be easily taken away from them.”
Now imagine we have a situation in Montserrat where the laws of the land state that for the qualification of voters a person must reside in Montserrat for 36 months immediately preceding the date of registration as a voter. That by definition excludes the Diaspora.
The case for Electoral Reform becomes even more focussed because we may get angry at the foreigners’ plans to take over our country but the laws of the land are making this permissible! If the government of the day does not realise the gross travesty of these current electoral laws and if we have non elected members of the legislature that seek to make our island a free for all bunny, then let us organise ourselves and make representations to higher levels to lobby for these dreadful laws to be repealed.
We hear daily about the re-development of Montserrat and I contend that our re-development is intricately linked to the engagement of the Diaspora in our social, economic and political processes back at home. This is a time for unity and I beg to understand why the deep opposition in some instances to an active engagement of the Diaspora on all of these three fronts?
It is not inconceivable that we put a process in place that recognises the concerns on both sides of the fence. Advocates of Electoral Reform to include the Diaspora are not in any way suggesting a carte blanche inclusion of every Montserratian abroad to vote in local elections. By discussion and analysis, a system can be worked out whereby we set conditions that could either include: - ownership of land in Montserrat, continued presence of immediate family members on the island, financial holdings, frequency of travel to Montserrat, property ownership, being abroad due to studies, having evacuated within the last 14 years due to volcanic activities, and other parameters that can be decided upon through consultation & collaboration.
Universal suffrage as a right for every Montserratian was first attained in 1952 through the sacrifice & vision of great men in our ancestry and simply through an Act of Parliament without the thorough consultative processes that sought the Diaspora’s views on this, it was taken away?
Many speak of information and communication barriers. Well, I say to that, that every obstacle presents an opportunity and this will be the ideal opportunity to put into action the revised communication strategy for Montserrat where we utilise the internet and its many applications, we improve upon our broadcast infrastructure, we train and equip our communication practitioners to meet the new realities ahead.
Going forward, we should seek to embark on a consultative process to re-engage the Diaspora. Strategy wise, representatives of political parties at home should seek to proactively outline their agendas and manifestos to the Diaspora, thus raising the level of our political dialogue. This can be done via town hall meetings and e-forums in the various jurisdictions where Diaspora resides. These are not difficult to set up.
By including the Diaspora in the political process, it can be the beginning of the process of unification towards a common goal of a better Montserrat. Montserratians in the Diaspora will feel a sense of inclusion and can thus be energised to lobby on behalf of policy directives from the government of the day. What we should be aiming towards is the creation of a movement for change and prosperity both at home and in the Diaspora. Electoral Reform will not solve all the issues but it can be an empowering step towards the sustainable development of our island.
By including the Diaspora in the political process, it can be the beginning of the process of unification towards a common goal of a better Montserrat. Montserratians in the Diaspora will feel a sense of inclusion and can thus be energised to lobby on behalf of policy directives from the government of the day. What we should be aiming towards is the creation of a movement for change and prosperity both at home and in the Diaspora. Electoral Reform will not solve all the issues but it can be an empowering step towards the sustainable development of our island.
Jeevan, I like the way you are using your blog to push for one particular party "What we should be aiming towards is a creation of a movement for change and prosperity" (MCAP) good try, but you would not be able to convince us down here. Keep that strategy for the Diaspora.
ReplyDeleteSorry to disappoint you, but Jeevan isn't for a party. He is for the people.
ReplyDeletePlease note that I am not aligned to any party. Perhaps you should look to engage in the wider the debate than to be making baseless accusations.
ReplyDeleteI wrote that as a genuine thought in my process of constructing the article. Kindly do not make such baseless accusations, they will be defended vigourously.
I am very disappointed that Anonymous could suggest that Jeevan is affiliated to a particular party. Please can we just stay focus on the discussion!
ReplyDeleteJeevan I wholeheartedly agree that all Montserratians should be involved in the political process of Montserrat which would include giving back Montserratians living abroad their right to vote.
Montserratians at home need to know that when we evacuated the island because of the volcanic crisis (a) we did not abandoned them and (b) we were not made aware that our right to vote had been revoked or would have been revoked.
Jeeven has already outlined why and how Montserratians abroad right to vote should be restored. However I wish to elaborate: In every nation there is an implied social contract between its government and its people. The State expects that when one is given that right to vote, there are conditions that its people have to fulfil. As Jeevan outlined, the condition which would be assumed by Montserratians abroad is to actively engage in the economic, political and social redevelopment of the island.
I pose this question, why would the government exclude Montserratians abroad from exercising their right to vote when there is a demand for improving the brain-drain in the island to a brain-gain. I argue that it should be the government’s prerogative to make the expats feel more welcome.
Jeevan also suggested that e-forums and town-halls might be useful places to discuss and launch the political parties manifestos. However, perhaps town-halls might be too expensive, unless we want to be creative and have video-conferencing arrangements etc. Whenever it is time for elections Montserratians may be encourage to either return home, visit the Montserrat UK Office here in London or wherever they may be to cast there vote.
Why do people think that because you have an opinion it has to be that of a party or organisation. Maybe if people stop thinking of themselves as sheep and more as shepherds they may develop skills to voice an express a valued individual opinion.
ReplyDeleteKeep up the good work JR.
Kyra, I agree with you wholeheartly. I am the holder of dual citizenship. In both passport states my place of bith is "Montserrat". With that been said I am still a citizen of Montserrat and my rights to vote should not have been taken away from me because I left my beloved Montserrat.
ReplyDeleteWe as Montserratians abroad contribute to various Charitiable Organizations namely the Montserrat Redcross, The St. Johns Hospital and the list goes on. We do give back to our country and I hope in the near future Montserrat can gives us back our rights.
Jeevon,It is obvious that you have two cronies, Kyra and CJ, I wonder if they ever had an opposing view point. In your editorial you actually said to vote EMCAP (smartly I must say). Like your two friends are blind to certain things that are written by you, fortunately there are others who are not that blind.I guess you did communication, so whatever you write is done with a purpose,not by accident. If I am wrong please correct me on that.
ReplyDeleteI am totally against individuals who are not living on island to vote, and please don't give me the usual bs that all other islands are doing it, so why not Montserrat. Montserrat is the only country that has about 10 times of it's population living in the Diaspora. It will be unfair to us here. Some one suggested that there should be a referendum on the matter, that would be true democracy, it would put to rest once and for all the debate on the matter, which ever way it go.
In retrospect I excuse your two "friends" they probably dodn't know what "MCAP" stands for. Please tell them to read the last paragraph in your editorial and they will realize where you are coming from.
Anonymous above, this is not a forum to argue over silly things, as you seem to be on.
ReplyDeleteIf being a "cronie" is standing next to and supporting someone who is working towards a cause (which by the way I don't see you doing) makes me a cronie, hey I'm glad to be one.
What I notice that is lacking in Montserrat is us supporting our own. We have been known to not support our own and be like crabs pulling each other back. Jeevan you have my 150% support in the positive vibrations you are bringing. I am not at all surprised that you view supporting someone as being a cronie. Seems to be a new concept to many.
Jeevan's blog above was clear. He put an end to the misconception that we would like to be able to vote by the elections. He also proposed a way that both Montserratians home and those abroad can meet common ground. That way is to allow those overseas to vote based on several requirements (whichever is deemed best). We are not proposing that everyone overseas vote. I know you wish that's what we were proposing so that you can rant about your little "oh Montserratians abroad outnumber Montserratians here".
Let's meet at a common ground. I am no less a Montserratian than whose at home!
Finally Jeevan addressed what Anonymous 11 was concerned about. He showed in his blog that this voting issue is important with people moving back home, as it will signal progress of both Montserratians at home and those abroad working towards a common goal. If you cannot understand that then I pity you.
This blog is not designed to push any particular party ahead, and clearly, that's not what's happening here.
Mr Anonymous I ask you kindly to raise your level of thinking beyond this insistence that my views are in support of MCAP. Do you have an agenda by continuing with such folly?
ReplyDeleteI have reviewed the section of my article where you wrongly assume that by me using the phrase that i did, it automatically assumes that I support MCAP. I will not even bother to change the wording of my article because the furthest thing from my mind was any form of party affiliation when I wrote this piece. Again my only concern is for the future of Momtserrat and our people. I have no party affilaition.
Additionally, Kyra and CJ are not my cronies, they are independent thinkers, whom by their statemens also find it ludicrous that you would choose to ssume by my choice of phrasing that my article is in support of MCAP. This article is a whole thought process my anonymous friend, not a single line of coding.
I will not respond any further to your diatribes about my use of phrasing. If you wish to talk politics and party support please leave that for another discussion. This particular discussion is about voting rights for the Diaspora & electoral reform
Now if you wish to engage me on that, I would be more than happy. You stated you would be against the Diaspora voting but you have not indicated any sound reasoning as to why you are so against this. I laid out my terms of reference in my article, I expect there to be contradicting views that are also with the framework of having a fruitful discussion
Additionally , this forum is for respectable discussion and debate, kindly leave all derogatory terms such as BS, etc etc away from this forum.
I welcome you to return to this blog and debate and discuss the issues but please do not come here to cuss anonymously.
Please let us get proceed with our debate on the issue in the article as presented
Hi
ReplyDeleteJust a note...there is a clause in the legislation that allows for an absentee ballot for students studying overses, and or persons on national duty.However the process is tedious.
Hi All
ReplyDeleteWhat is your take on one party having all nine seats? Personally I think this will be a dangerous premis to set. Having a full majority will prevent adequate checks and balances, it will also have no whistle blowers when bills are being passed that are clearly intended for self interest (self interest here means party) So I think it may be wise to vote for a party or a select set of persons for the Goverment, but also choose a suitable set of watchdogs to keep them in check.
I believe that the 9X farse should also be thrown out so that one can make a more valued choice with his or her vote.I prefer to vote for one person that would look after may constituent interests in addition to country. This will also clear up the Diasporas plight. If we go back to representatives for constituencies we could simply introduce a seat specifically for the DIASPORA. a person who will carry forward the plight of the Diaspora. A number of deligates from each party or independants will then declare themselves for the Diaspora to choose from. This will guarantee that there will always be a Diaspora representative in the legislature. As the diaspora is soo large, probably 2 seats may be allowed. One for Europe and the other for the Americas. Come to think of it.. it may actually work!!! Think of it as Antigua and Barbuda, where Barbuda contested one seat. In our case it would be Montserrat and the "Strats Outer regions" where the outer regions would have two seats.
Can anyone tell me what all these parties stand for and why I should support any of them.
ReplyDeleteI think it is vital that we have in Parliament a defined Leader of the Opposition and a party as such to challenge the government of the day to its manifesto pledges and issues of ethics and integrity. A system of checks and balances woud be vital to ensure proper practices in our political system are upheld
ReplyDeleteThe Voting At Lare system has its pitfalls and many questions as you correctly raised still exists as to whether it serves our interests properly. For instance, the issue of coalition governments which has been a repeated product of this system has proven, with real evidence, not to work in our favour. The idea of voting 9X presents these challenges that could be simply lessened if we persisted with our previous constituency system.
I like the idea of having a representative for my area. Now obviously one major issue that comes up here is that we may not be able to divide the population/space up into constituencies. So therefore what I propose is that we create a borough/district type system whereby we have the Salem borough/district etc etc and for each district as like before with the party system, they will have there political representative. I think that will give a good grounding for individuals to organise themselves even better into parties for presentation to the electorate.
What do others think of this?
Also I very much like your idea of a constituent Diaspora representtaive! It has merit I believe and can be one of the foundations for a working agreement towards electoral reform.
To go even further as i think on it, what we can have is that persons within a party who declare themselves to be seeking the Diaspora vote can visit, over a period of time, each jurisdiction where Montserratians live.
A structure can be set up whereby meetings are held with proper presentations made by that candidate that includes slide shows of development projects, images of people living normal lives, brochures handed out showing that candidate's initiatives for people who wish to return home amongst a host of other such things. Essentially candidates will present to the Diaspora a well thought out action plan that will further help to galvanise the Diaspora and show them that their input is welcomed and appreciated.
This is just one idea and I am sure persons may have differing variations on this or other ideas even. Let's hear them.
(On a side note, I just wish to say that MNI Alive website is currently being upgraded whereby I am including an ideas/suggestions box and all these ideas that are coming forward, notable ones that have come forward before, along with future ideas will be collated into official documents and a system set up to make representation of these ideas to the necessary leadership officials in Montserrat or in the Diaspora. Together we will all take our island forward on all fronts.
Yes it could prove dangerous if one party was to hold all 9 seats but historically Montserrat has been known for free and fair elections so if the results reveal that, we take it that the people have spoken by exercising their constitutional right and proceed to work with the elected members.
ReplyDeleteWhat we need to do is get back to the time when the opposition was truly opposition and a general challenge of the government's policies are out genuine concern for the welfare of the country and not just a personal or party agenda. When personal agenda's get involved the voters are left with not much confidence and so they head to the polling stations to vote but with a strong sense of indecision about who exactly is telling the truth and who to give that all important vote.
Believe it or not there were actually periods in the history of Montserrat's politics when the opposition was our watchdog and the government and the people knew when they didn't dot all the "Is" and cross all the "Ts".
The option of two seats for the Diaspora I really don't know what to make of it. I think this is someone in support of the the "us" and "them" issue. We simply want to vote as Montserratians and not be seen as being placed in any special category. A British Citizen can vote in UK elections no matter where they go and not be classified so we simply want that as Montserratians.
Hi
ReplyDeleteIn answer to Jeevan.... Electorial poling areas are already set up in Montserrat so this can simply become the constituencies.You can not leave from Salem and go to St. Johns to vote. You have to vote in Salem. You would appreciate Plymouth , Harris , St. Patricks no longer exist, so one would have to become domiclie in a new are and register to vote there .e.g. Cork Hill resident now settled in Lookout.
In response to Robert A... This is not an us and them opinion. It is simply a matter that is peculiar to Montserrat where the majority of the potential voters are out side of the Island. It would obviously be difficult to render a vote if only 1/10 of the voting population is actually on island and the other 9/10 can orchestrate the flow of events. Imagine the travel costs of running an election campaign.
Having 2 seats for the diaspora is fair 3 seats if you pressure well .. in that if gives you possibly 25% -33% of the seats and a CONTINUOUS representation no matter who the party is. As has been pointed out, the mandate of the Diaspora may not be the same mandate of the people living on the island. Yes we are all Montserratian, but honestly you need to be on the ground to become aware of the specific needs and to really know who is representing you and what they do, dont do and who they boss and bully. With the Diaspora seats significant pressure can still be placed on local politicians and you over all objective of being able to vote will be met.
I am also British Citizen and i have never been afforded the luxury of being able to vote in UK elections, although i have attempted to do so.
Well Jeevan when you said you were going to post your new topic I never realized you were going to tell us to vote for MCAP as clearly stated in your last paragraph.
ReplyDeleteThat aside now I think it is a very good idea for you all in the UK to lobby to get 1 or 2 seats and then you all could vote for Montserratians in the UK as your representatives in the M/rat government. Just like u have the M/rat UK office something more structured along those lines. The MP wont have give up anything just continue to live in the UK, work on keeping M/rat culture alive up there and try to get development etc., for the island. Just dont come again with a golf course it didn't work out last time.
Then there will be no question about rights to vote in M/rat elections. I think you can be a very good candidate.
First, I must applaud Mr. Robinson for starting this MNI-Alive website which is an extremely valuable vehicle for serious discussion and debate pertaining to Montserrat.
ReplyDeleteThe recent discussion regarding the participation of the Montserratian diaspora in the political life of Montserrat has been very informative. I too listened to the ZJB Radio broadcast last Thursday morning where one current political candidate expressed his opposition to the idea of Montserratians abroad being able to vote in Montserrat elections, and gave his reasons for this perspective. In my view, the candidate and Mr. Robinson both express valid points.
However, it appears to me that the discussion so far regarding the “Montserrat diaspora” refers only to those native Montserratians who were forced to leave for reasons relating to the volcano (e.g. loss of land and other property, loss of livelihood, etc.). Is there a place in the discussion for “non-native Montserratians”, i.e. persons born outside of Montserrat, but with one/both parents or one/both sets of grandparents born and bred in Montserrat?
Obviously, there will be some percentage of these “non-native Montserratians” who have little or no connection whatsoever (emotional, cultural, or otherwise) to Montserrat, who do not consider themselves “Montserratian”, and who have no interest in Montserrat’s development. By the same token, there are “born Montserratians” now living outside Montserrat, who, apart from the fact of being born on Alliougana soil, now have no further connection or interest.
Jeevan has argued that “[Montserrat’s] re-development is intricately linked to the engagement of the Diaspora in our social, economic and political processes back at home”. Within the parameters he has proposed, I fully agree. Let’s not forget or ignore the non-native Montserratians who are part of our diaspora, who actively retain various connections to Montserrat, and who wish to contribute to her development also.
One love to all Montserratians at home and abroad.
One of the complaints I have heard is that the candidates avoid putting anything in writing that could possibly come back to haunt them later. Is there any way that mni-alive could initiate some type of forum for the candidates?
ReplyDeleteI am a non-Montserratian who has been living on Montserrat from just prior to the volcanic crises, and may I say still living here, so of course I have what all of us want to have my passport.
ReplyDeleteI have been reading this blog since I heard about it, and have finally decided to comment. I consider myself just as capable as any of the candidates currently offering themselves for this election and so I am seriously considering offering myself next time around. For those of you overseas we are very involved in a lot of community affairs & groups apart from our own country organizations, Red Cross, Lions club, Optimist club,Singing groups ,church and PTA just to name a few.
What I know for sure is that I will be getting a lot more votes than many of the current candidates, because I can count on my other non-Montserratians to support me, even those not from "back home" as it is obvious I will be sympathetic to their issues. Do you know how we voted en masse for a particular candidate last election.
By the way the addition to the voters list, do you know the number of new voters? and how many on it are Montserratians? I'm sure someone can post the details almost immediately.
Most of the candidates are recyles from the past elections, and of the new candidates it is guaranteed that 75% or more will not get back their deposit. I can understand your plight, but unless there are other Montserratians who will come back and are in a position to offer themselves all this old talk about no non -Montserratian will be able to be part of the government is just plain nonsensical.
I have no problem with Montserratians running their native land, but if there is another round of recyles next time, I will be very interested.
Jeevan Said: "What we should be aiming towards is the creation of a movement for change and prosperity both at home and in the Diaspora."
ReplyDeleteJeevan is reportedly a very astute young man who studied communications and such. He sucked us all in and then fed us the party tagline. Well done Jeevan. Of course his out of touch friends in the diaspora would not have noticed.
This was no mistake, it was a deliberate and subversive attempt to lead people in a particular direction.
Nothing wrong with suporting a party, but the sneaky manner in which it was done has turned me off. Don't bother to defend anymore Jeevan, you have been caught out and I will just treat you for what you are from now on.
Now if only you would bring those clever marketing skills back to Montserrat we might actually get some of your friends to follow you.
Tangible and sustainable assitance from the diaspora is a mythical dream that we have been chasing for years.
ReplyDeleteIn time to come... Montserratians will back their fancy talk with actions. in time to come...
I am very sympathetic to -and am inclined to agree with- the statement by one recent poster that...
ReplyDelete"Tangible and sustainable assistance from the diaspora is a mythical dream that we have been chasing for years".
I am assuming that by "tangible and sustainable assistance", the poster is referring to more than monetary remittances sent "back home" to family members still on island.
A number of earlier comments on this blog have referred to the array of professional and vocational skills & competencies acquired by the Montserrat diaspora ... skills and competencies that -as yet- have not been used to benefit Montserrat. Similar comments have suggested the need to establish a database of persons and skill sets that might be called upon as and when needed.
In an effort to move beyond the "fancy talk" (as expressed by the recent poster), I will state the following, and hope that this might inspire others to do the same:
My professional background and experience is in the area of science & technology education and science teacher education (secondary and postsecondary levels). I am more than willing to discuss with officials of the Montserrat Ministry of Education and other education administrators/practitioners in Montserrat how I might provide tangible -and hopefully, sustainable- assistance if there is a perceived need in these areas.
One love to all Montserratians at home and abroad.
As Editor in Chief of MNI Alive, I promised not to really respond any further to the accusations levelled at me as regards the use of my phrasing in the last paragraph my article.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I find it incredulous that someone would suggest that I am subversively telling people to vote MCAP, trying to bring the integrity of this forum into disrepute.
Mr/Miss Anonymous, if you read any of my previous articles that are archived on this website, you would know that MNI Alive has no party affiliation. Quite frankly I have not even seen MCAP's manifesto to say that I am in support of them or anyone else for that matter.
One of the reasons why I have taken the editorial decision not to change that sentence is based on the fact that I know that in the process of writing my article, I wrote that line as a genuinely inspired thought. MCAP, MDP, MLP, etc etc, were furthest from my mind. Even reading over the article before I published it, it never once occurred to me that I was using a phrase synonymous with MCAP.
The 'anonymous' individual who keeps posting the insistence that this article is in support of MCAP, it concerns me as Editor that you are attempting to hi-jack this discussion about electoral reform and the issues we need to discuss about the future of our country. We are here to discuss issues my friend, not to make baseless accusations. Why come on to accuse the Editor of party affiliation and then hide yourself?
If you had issues with my phrasing, which you are allowed to have by the way, you coud have simply emailed me to voice your concern. Instead you are attempting to lead the discussion on a tangent that quite frankly is a disservice to the many individuals out there who wish to get on with a proper debate and discussion.
So come on my friend, I respect your feelings on the matter but kindly lets talk about the issues, throw out some ideas, rebuttals to my piece etc etc into the forum so we can talk about what we were intended to speak about.
If you are still not satisfied, then please do email me at jeevan@mnialive.com and I will give you my number and you can call me and we can speak about your grievance. But please do know that MNI Alive has no party affiliation.
I was never condeming you for party affiliation, just for sneaking it on your unsuspecting readers.
ReplyDeleteBut, you have made your disclaimer so we can indeed move on.
But let me ask you though. Are you not troubled by the vigilante activities of some of your readers? How come you did not condemn the IP tracing nonsense? Are you party to it? Please tell me you are not condoning this Big Brother snooping. It is the one thing that will kill your blog, if people who prefer to share their thoughts anonymously are threatened with exposure and worse.
MNI Alive does not condone or encourage any Big Brother type activity of any sort on our forum. In fact that is why I allow individuals to comment anonymously instead of having to sign in to post a comment. MNI Alive is more interested in what persons have to contribute to the discussion/debates & not who they are.
ReplyDeleteYes, the situation with the IP address snooping is one that concerned me. I assumed the only reason why one of our commentators did so was to ascertain who Mr Forbes Adams is.
We do not support such activities as Mr Adams does have a right to speak; we should only be thankful that we are now privvy to his innermost thoughts and look to organise ourselves at home an abroad to curtail such an eventuality such as what Mr Forbes stated.
We do not condone IP address snooping and would kindly ask that everyone use this forum in a respectable manner.
I will not permit any attempts to disclose where Mr Adams can be located via this medium.
Anonymous 11
ReplyDeleteBetter late than never....My question is this what will you being able to vote in the elections achieve? A sense of belonging, empowerment in our electoral process? WHAT
What Jeevan and others are not highlighting to us are the benefits involved in allowing the Diaspora to vote. I am yet to be convinced.
The rationale for why you should be allowed to vote is not convincing, what would this do for our country?
At this very moment Jeevan let us say we passed an act or bill that allows the Diaspora to vote, you stated "a system can be worked out whereby we set conditions that could either include: - ownership of land in Montserrat, continued presence of immediate family members on the island, financial holdings, frequency of travel to Montserrat, property ownership, being abroad due to studies, having evacuated within the last 14 years due to volcanic activities".
You Jeevan certainly would not fit under land owner so tell me which of these criteria you would fit under - immediate family member or frequency of travel to Montserrat (once per yr or once every 2 years) I do not support these criterias however perhaps you can consider now purchasing a piece of land in Montserrat just incase this diaspora voting issue gets enacted. Would this incease or improve the economic situation in Montserrat NO..but if you were to build a house on the land you purchase that would see some economic activity.
So please people in your discussions please help me to see the benefits of my colleagues in UK, USA and other places could bring to the rock by allowing them to vote.
I am yet to be convinced!!!! as I am more interested in improving the socio-economic and both micro and macro economic policies which would allow my country to prosper and move forward.
As I said under the previous discussion there are more pertinent issues we need to be discussing diaspora voting will not help our country it would only be giving you a sense of belonging. I am not against the diaspora voting to some extent but alot must be proven first
Even though we have rights of freedom of speech is not what you say but how you say it. It is a criminal offence to post threathening or degrading remarks on any website. So what makes this website except? Sorry folks. It's not illegal to trace someone IP Address to find the culprit who post threathening remarks. Montserratians at home and abroad should feel threaten by Adams. Enquiring minds surely would like to know who this assumed Forbes Adams is?
ReplyDeleteActually there are 2 Forbes Adams listed on Facebook and they both have friends who are here on Montserrat. So perhaps he is not using an alias as many think. Perhaps it is that guy with the laptop all the time LOL. No need to trace an IP address a simple investigation like what the Police does should be sufficient LOL.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous
ReplyDeleteAs a non-Montserratian and someone not-resident in Montserrat I can see a clear advantage of the reintroduction of oversees voting by Montserratians as an advantage to the future development of the country’s future infrastructure and economical development.
Firstly many Montserratians who currently reside outside of the island are at an advantage both socially & economically. It should also be noted that many Montserrat nationals do not wish to retire in UK or US but eventually return back to their country of origin where they believe to be secure and can sustain a moderate means of life. This possible return migration of people to the West Indies has been the legacy of the Windrush generation and has now also become a characteristic of the disposed Montserratians residing oversees.
It would be advantageous for Montserrat to capitalize on such long term plans of its residents and make it possible for oversees residents to purchase land and build properties on the island. If the banks in Montserrat could offer loans for those abroad to obtain loans this would most definitely add much needed investment and economic activity back into the island for the foreseeable future. This would also ensure that Montserrat kept the doors open for not just young professionals returning but the elder retired community. With the future increase of privately owned properties on the island would will lead to a trend of Montserratians returning to the island who do not have to incur the costs of high priced hotel and rental properties and also spread out the time of year returnees come back to the island.
Montserratians are happy to invest in the future of the island if they are going to be given a chance to be influential in its future. Montserrat needs financial investment into the country to allow it to survive the current financial crises that continue to hit the world’s economies. Montserrats economy in not sustainable to survive. It has to be realistic and gain that investment from its own nationals abroad. And if allowing them the right to vote is what it will take then I suggest that it what needs to be done.
In one corner Montserrat has given the right to vote to foreign nationals who have the right to vote and the ability to establish an electoral party and in reality control the government. As the non-resident community have no current political platform in the country I see this as a current non-void threat by one individual.
The right to reinstate the vote non-residents is advantageous to all Montserratians. And in refusing and ignoring the offer is just merely down to the fear of loosing control of a smaller electoral group. Opening up the vote to a non resident community will ensure that politicians will be voted upon there merits, overall ability to run and lead a country, long gone will be the days of rum shop politics and voting for who knows who and what they can offer an individual. Why would Montserrat not be striving for such a positive change?
But no ! People want to ignore change and have an electoral system with 2 parties and 24 candidates?? My God can it get any worst!
Anonymous 11, first let me say that the dicussion of Montserratians abroad being re-instated the right to vote is not about me. This is a general issue and the personalisations does not enhance our discussion. It goes beyond personal feelings, assets, circle of influence and other such nuances. This is something that many individuals who live abroad wish to have addressed, as too do many persons who currently live in Montserrat such as yourself.
ReplyDeleteThe individual above has outlined some ideas that I too do share and do see as important as it pertains to the economic and social benefits and the re-investment in our economy by residents living abroad.
My article did not go into specifics as you do realise and I never assumed it was wholesome in making the case, as there are many faces to this debate, but at least its aim was to open the discussion.
I find it undemocratic that some people are not even willing to consider the basic right of suffrage for Montserratians who had no choice but to leave at the height of the crisis. Are we now living in an authoritatian society?
Montserrat is not just for Montserratains who live at home, it is for us all as MONTSERRATIANS and friends of Montserrat. So why is it being seen as an alien concept that Montserratians abroad would wish to begin a discussion to assess the feasibility of reinstating their voting rights that were taken away without proper explanation?
To mhotjes
ReplyDeleteRemember also there are many Montserratians in the diaspora who got citizenship by living here for a period but are not born Montserratians so your argument is not valid. There are many guyanese, spanish and jamaicans who obtain our passport and migrated.
Reverting back to a constituent type elections would not work as well this was assessed a few years back. Remember you may end up with about 6 candidates running in the salem or st peters areas.
For example if we revert back to constituents none of the current candidates to my recollection, running in this yr's election lives in Lookout, so you see the unbalance issue arising. Who will be representative for the Lookout are if we intrduce constituent voting
Secondly one person might be pushing to have the roads fix in their community and what would happen to the other roads on the island when the money is used up for a particular comuunity. People would be at war if we reinstate this type of constituent voting. The island is way to small because most candidates currently live in different areas then you cant have 9 people running in st johns area because they live in st johns
Opening up the vote to non-resident community may creat havoc because you people would not no much about the candidates you may only hear about a candidate when election time comes would that be enough to vote upon their merits and overall ability to run a country. Please think about what you type before you post.
You have to vote for who you know about so your statement about gone will be the days ..... voting for who knows who is not valid. You must vote for who you know and who you know can get the job done.
Alot of people are talking about wanting to retire on Montserrat - people we already have homes like golden years full to capacity would the country benefit from people wanting to come home to retire with nothing in some instances This would only create a further drain on the country if you return when you barely can help yourself. Do you call that giving back to the country or helping to redevelop the country?
Anonymous 11
ReplyDeleteLet me set you straight my comments were merely to give an example of the weakness of your suggested criteria nothing more.
Misconceptions can be dreadful... of course I am not silly to think that Montserrat is just for Montserratians at home it belongs to all of us you keep saying this is a discussion but appears to get abit upset when we are trying to highlight the merits and demerits of a diaspora voting.
You said "The individual above has outlined some ideas that I too do share and do see as important as it pertains to the economic and social benefits and the re-investment in our economy by residents living abroad" this comes across as if it would only happen if you are allowed to vote so do be careful with your choice of words.
You said "So why is it being seen as an alien concept that Montserratians abroad would wish to begin a discussion to assess the feasibility of reinstating their voting rights that were taken away without proper explanation?"
Editor this statement is not valid. You expected persons on island to know where everyone went and post a ballot to you. I left when you guys left also no one knew where I went until I made contact so do not say it was taken away without explanation.
Many thanks for that comment as it does show another edge of the coin in this discussion. However, I see you have highlighted all the argument against. So may I ask what are your recommendations?
ReplyDeleteYou speak of non nationals who acquired citizenship based on time spent in Montserrat as a case against re-instating voting rights for Montserratians abroad. What I will say to this is that if the voting right were to be re-instated, it would not be an across the board, ad hoc enterprise. It should be properly managed, its terms of reference clearly defined, registration procedures for individuals abroad who wish to register to vote meticulously outlined whereby not any person who holds a passport from Montserrat will come and vote.
If needs be, the reform of the electoral laws will take into account the possibility of such a situation as you mentioned occurring and put the legislation in place to stop this. This is not an obstacle by any means.
On the issue of not knowing a candidate, I think that that argument falls a bit short. We did speak about enacting a communications strategy for Montserrat to reflect the new realities of our island. The voting issue has to be looked at not just by its constituent parts but by the full elements that can come together to make this a viable prospect.
And for clarity, may I kindly ask what you mean when you refer to the term 'you people'?
Let me say that I am not at all upset. I am in fact enjoying our discussion. You did state previously in one of your posting that you know me well, so if you dp then you will know that my disposition is not towards feelings of anger. I was only stating that to state whether or a specific individual owned land and such was making this debate a bit too personal.
ReplyDeleteSo to our discussion. I do contend that the voting right was taken away without proper explanation. Come on now anonymous 11, you and I both know the various quarters that Montserratians moved to mainly in the UK And USA. In 1997/98, Refugee Action in the UK had a database as to where the vast majority of migrated Montserratians moved to. Acquiring this data to set up meetings to speak with the Diaspora about what was being considered was a matter of simple research.
Anonynous 11
ReplyDeleteHence why I suggestd long before let us tackle key issues and strategies prior to this diaspora voting discussion to set the ground work. Stategies such as the communication strategy you are alluding to.
Ok and you stated it was taken without proper explanation - you were wrong to say that but I guess you would not retract your words.
Jeevan I merely raise the issue to highlight that it is a problem for many for non-nationals to be voting I do not have a problem with it because they are the ones here who are holding the forth. I mention it to highlight that non-nationals with British passport who live in the diaspora will be voting as well. where do you draw the line? You stated that "registration procedures for individuals abroad who wish to register to vote meticulously outlined whereby not any person who holds a passport from Montserrat will come and vote."
I rest my discussion - relevance is the key word. I await your next topic
Anonymous 11, what do you mean about if you all are to know where the Montserratians went?
ReplyDeleteIf Montserratians overseas had to register to vote, wouldn't they include information such as location? Come on. Believe it or not, we do keep in tabs with Montserratians home. With the Internet on the boom, and social networks like Facebook, trust me, we know more than you think we do.
Editor sir, you expected the population that we left behind would have been able to deal with electoral research instead of other more important issues such as implementation of various infrastructures to get the country up and running and make it a place for us to return for vacation. May I remind you that they were there cleaning ash daily and trying to rebuild a damaged country get real.
ReplyDeleteHow much people remained in 1997 and 1998 and could have facilitated such responsibility?
Mr Editor your expectations were quiet high
CJ you do not know half of it. If you do not have a friend in key places that can call you like I get calls to enlighten you believe me you only know what you hear on ZJB.
Facebook is a social network as you say it does not give you insight into what is happening on Strat. If facebook was a serious network on discussions then now Jeev would not have to start this blog.
Who runs this country? your answer maybe Ministers of Government NO, its the FS and PS's who are the accounting officers not ministers. Well am telling you - you have no clue
For sure anonymous 11, we we will tackle topics such as what you highlighted. MNI Alive is right now being upgraded so that we can handle mutiple topics on the site beyond its current format.
ReplyDeleteThe voting issue was topical as there are lots of misconceptions and so forth out there and on the back of the Forbes Adams posting, I thought it beneficial to pursue a similar vein of discussion.
To Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI did not make any or present any suggestions on how the process of electing a government should be formed in relation to Montserrat and relating back to any previous constituency voting system. In fact if I were to make a suggestion it would be a total reform of the electoral process.
What I gave you was a brief outline and example of how to engage both groups into ways of developing the island economically through a shared process of long-term consultation and investment that would benefit the country. The suggestion that I gave was an example of what could be used to open the door for such as structured system to be implemented.
The term or definition of retirement was not targeted at any specific age group, but more at individuals who are in a financial position to make a choice of no longer having to work or be resident in a country due to its financial benefits. Many retirees who return back to the Caribbean do so with employment pensions and do not expect to go reside in retirement homes but as I presented the cases earlier would prefer to build there own homes and live there.
In the case of the elderly Montserrations who would like the option of retiring back to Montserrat to see out there final years in the island of there birth and the place that they call home, would you also deny them that privilege as well everything else that they helped create and fought to build?
In closing, as you seem to be anti oversees voting, anti oversees investment and anti the returning old elderly retired Montserratians. For the benefit of all the other subscribers to the Blog, what are you actually for ?, and what are your suggestions in taking the island of Montserrat and its people forward.?
Regarding the recent posting on those left behind who were cleaning ash; no I did not expect everyone to be taken up with electoral research.
ReplyDeleteIt does strike me though that you seem to suggest that it was difficult to make a few phone calls etc to set up meetings in the locations where the Diaspora had relocated to explain the reasons why their voting rights were being rescinded, yet the time was still found to plan and execute the overhaul in our voting system that excluded that very same recently migrated Diaspora.
Quite a few Montserratians worked at and also volunteered at Refugee Action. All I am stating is that that data was readily available and was not by any means difficult to acquire.
Anonymous 11, my reference to Facebook was to give an example that keeping in touch with Montserratians at home is very simple.
ReplyDeleteThe argument that we should not vote because we don't know about the candidates apart from what we hear on ZJB is very silly.
Just because we do not live there, doesn't mean we are estranged from the island. I have yet to know at least one Stratian who lives abroad who doesn't have family and/or friends back home that they do not speak to on a DAILY basis. Don't you think they inform us of such things? Why would we vote contrary to what's in the best interest of those who we know live there?
People such as Jeevan, know of many happenings in Montserrat, more than the average person who lives in Montserrat. For the fact that we are outside, makes us have a keen interest in knowing exactly what's going on so that we can feeling even closer to Strat.
What is this I am hearing that Montserratians abroad don't know anything about the present candidates running for election is foolish saying. We have been affilated to them prior to the volcano either working together, going to school, church, neighbors and friends. I would agree if you said if a Non-National ran for elections we don't know anything about them because they are from another country. We don't even know if those Non-Nationals in Montserrat has criminal records and are running from the law. Montserrat do not run background checks on those persons coming to live or work in the country. They come work permits and Naturalization has been given to them.
ReplyDeleteI will agree that not every Montserratian who left Montserrat should be given the right to vote. Those who left post volcano should be given some sort of consideration. I've known Montserratians who left Montserrat between 20 and 50 years ago and never been back. Obviously they are out of touch with Montserrat and shouldn't have that privilege to vote. Let's be realistic folks.
Robinson, as EDITOR I think you should be seen as been NEUTRAL and allow discussions to flow. The case you presented as well as your comments are obvious and that you are for diaspora voting. (I am not against we voting from UK or USA I would like to vote).
ReplyDeleteBut as the Editor I feel you should allow the discussions to progress without you being for or against an argument and that you should present cases without people knowing what side you take.
That is my observation. Thanks
Anonymous above this is a blog. Bloggers usually have an opninion some stay neutral but most do not. Jeevan isnt out of line for saying he support the cause.
ReplyDeleteSome people just like nitpicking. What's wrong with Jeevan having an opinion? The point is to address some issues he disagrees with. Why do people say things and not think? Goosssh.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 11
ReplyDeleteJeev please do not waste time to respond to that individual about being neutral, pure nonsense
Wait a second. Isn't there a Montserrat office in England? It was a complete waste of time while I was there years ago. Are they still collecting government money for NOTHING?
ReplyDeleteJeevan, Put your idea about voting in Montserrat while living in England and elsewhere on the backburner for a bit. It is irrelevant to us at the moment.
Why not start a movement for the Officer in the UK Montserrat office to be an Elected Representative. Elected by and for the Montserratians in England.
I would vote for you, if you promise to actually do work unlike the lady who is there now getting paid for mereley existing.
If she was actually doing work, Montserratians in England would be better informed and up to date.
If you are looking to come home you should be able to contact them and get all the information you require. They could then put you in contact with all the relevant people and departments to assist you with the transition.
When you want to effect change, it is best to start a bit closer to home.
Elect your Montserrat office representative in England. You will not get much opposition from anyone here.
Anonymous above prompted me to comment. On another topic posted I made a similar suggestion, why not use the M/rat UK office as a starting point. Montserratians in the Uk can exercise their right to vote. They can then vote for a UK based M/ratian to be their representative as part of the government that exist on island. The office can then serve a useful function - at present I really do not know what is the function of this office or how it really benefits the M/rat community in the UK.
ReplyDeleteIs there a reason why for the past 2 days, ZJB cannot be accessed online? I hope this is not a thing to try keep the diaspora out, and from preventing us from asking hard questions! Someone let me know please.
ReplyDeleteAlso I heard WARREN CASSELL decided to use one of the ideas posted here about having a representative that the Diaspora can elect. I hope he didn't pass it off as his idea. Hmmphhhhhhhh.
CJ, stop please do not make such comment alot of people are listening and the bandwidth or whatever is full. There is no need to say I hope this is not a thing to try and keep the diaspora out whether you mean it or not.
ReplyDeleteCan the Montserratians in England who claim to be so well informed and up to date tell us what the function of the Montserrat UK Office is?
ReplyDeleteIs the office doing anything meaningful for the diaspora?
Start to fix things from where you are friends.
I dont know how much control we have over the Montserrat Office here. From my understanding the people in the Office were place there by the Montserrat government.
ReplyDeleteI would personally fire them all and get a new set of people who really have the interest of the Montserrat people at heart.
I went to a meeting when the Chief Minister Dr Lewis was invited to speak. It was at some back hall in Tottenham. I for one think that our delegates should be treated much better than that.
Agreed fire all of them because we here in Strat do not even know what is happening with that UK Montserrat Office once in awhile you hear that lady here and we do not even know the reason. She is paid by Government of Montserrat and she reports to the CM office but have no clue what her mission is really because I do not hear the diaspora saying anything regarding that office - WASTE of taxpayers money
ReplyDeleteJeevan, Could you please find out what is the Role; Mission; Function of the Montserrat UK Office.
ReplyDeleteHow many people work there?
What are the Job Descriptions?
What are the Salaries for the posts? (no names necessary)
Freedom of information and transparency is what we are after.
If you can't get all the information at once; please report back as you find out any little bit.
If you don't have the time or inclination to perform this task please delegate it to one of your other friends up there. Perhaps the part-time calypsonian who repeatedly called in on ZJB this morning can help you.
If this minor request proves to be beyond the capacity of you goodly gentlemen we will have to question your capacity to initiate or effect any change whatsoever.